Infraction stories

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

No, you haven't. The freshmen get to know the sorority women as normal people, not as some sort of superhuman being. That's the whole point. If sorority members don't go out and try to meet women on their own, that's their problem.

Are some people going to shitty things like promise bids? Probably. But I personally think the solution lies in educating the rushees - i.e. telling them that people who do that are bad people and should be taken with a grain of salt. If you can tell them that women aren't talking to them because of silence rules, and expect them to understand that, you can just as easily tell them what is and isn't dirty rushing and expect them to understand that as well.

But it's not in a PNM's interest report or ignore dirty rushing. A promised bid for them is a positive.

I think it would just lead to "enforced" getting to know the freshmen instead of silence and a lot more of the "buy drinks for the freshmen" sort of dirty rushing too. (When you're talking about non-deferred freshmen rush, not deferred or sophomore rush).

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

But it's not in a PNM's interest report or ignore dirty rushing. A promised bid for them is a positive.

A promised bid is not positive.

Yes, if the bid is promised and they actually wind up getting a bd there, then it is.

But more often than not, the member doing the promising doesn't REALLY know if said PNM will receive a bid. She has no clue how matching will play out.

I've heard many times of PNMs being bid promised at Pref, and getting a bid to a different chapter. It's a very heartbreaking situation, as the PNM essentially thought she was guaranteed to be an XYZ on Bid Night.

Then there's always the indirect promising that some members do without realizing. Example: "Can't want to see you tomorrow!" Said member doesn't know if she WILL see her tomorrow, and that can be taken as a promise as well.

[VandalSquirrel]

I also wish there was a way to address the idle gossip that is damaging; discussing a chapter closing when it isn't. To me that is just as bad as bid promising, and hurts the whole system.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I also wish there was a way to address the idle gossip that is damaging; discussing a chapter closing when it isn't. To me that is just as bad as bid promising, and hurts the whole system.

When I was on campus, a chapter received some sanctions from their HQ which affected their social calendar.

Somehow, this led to PNMs thinking that this chapter was closing (no clue how that came to be). Girls were asking other PNMs in their groups and even girls in other chapters about it.

We were told by Panhellenic that if we were asked about their situation, to tactfully let PNMs know that all chapters were very strong and thriving. If asked any further, we were to let them know (tactfully) that we did not know the details and to ask the GA or one of their PXs.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

When I was on campus, a chapter received some sanctions from their HQ which affected their social calendar.

Somehow, this led to PNMs thinking that this chapter was closing (no clue how that came to be). Girls were asking other PNMs in their groups and even girls in other chapters about it.

We were told by Panhellenic that if we were asked about their situation, to tactfully let PNMs know that all chapters were very strong and thriving. If asked any further, we were to let them know (tactfully) that we did not know the details and to ask the GA or one of their PXs.

This is why I do like a school that is organized and involved. UW (Huskies) and WSU (Cougars) have information on their pages about campus orgs. and their status. Though most incoming freshmen won't look, their parents might and it could make a difference. We haven't had issues while at my time at Idaho, but it seems we're open about RM issues as one can find it in the student paper with quotes from the Dean of Students. Smaller social issues are discussed, mostly men's groups, but I have yet to see it really hurt a chapter to have social sanctions.

Let's be honest, people will have socials even when they aren't supposed to, it hurts more when they can't participate in Homecoming and Greek Week.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

Let's be honest, people will have socials even when they aren't supposed to, it hurts more when they can't participate in Homecoming and Greek Week.

See, and this was a part of those sanctions. No Homecoming, Greek Week, Derby Days, etc. The inability to particpate in activities like that is what led PNMs to think they were closing.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

A promised bid is not positive.

Yes, if the bid is promised and they actually wind up getting a bd there, then it is.

But more often than not, the member doing the promising doesn't REALLY know if said PNM will receive a bid. She has no clue how matching will play out.

I've heard many times of PNMs being bid promised at Pref, and getting a bid to a different chapter. It's a very heartbreaking situation, as the PNM essentially thought she was guaranteed to be an XYZ on Bid Night.

Then there's always the indirect promising that some members do without realizing. Example: "Can't want to see you tomorrow!" Said member doesn't know if she WILL see her tomorrow, and that can be taken as a promise as well.

Right, but most PNMs think their promised bid is real as you said.

I'm talking though that if there weren't silence rules at all, sororities could essentially put together their bid list before round 1 and have promised said bids to the PNMs. We've seen how even on relatively non-competitive friendly campuses rush can turn chapters nasty. With the current national emphasis on numbers (because they're needed to stay competitive) I don't see a more relaxed even fraternity style rush working. As long as quota must be achieved or else it's going to be pretty cutthroat.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

But it's not in a PNM's interest report or ignore dirty rushing. A promised bid for them is a positive.

That's why I'm saying to impress upon them that it's NOT positive - that it's the equivalent of someone trying to scam you by selling you parking passes that are outdated, fake IDs or something of the like. Bid promisers = scammers. The End.

Also, I completely agree with VS's post. Rush was switched from deferred to allowing 1st semester freshmen several years after I left school. The GA's rationale was (I think these were her words) "we want to get them before they know any better." Needless to say, that mindset helped the whole system into the crapper as women who DIDN'T know any better joined in droves (and quit in droves after a year or two).

If what we are offering is as wonderful as we say it is, we need to throw out all the old cliches (it helps you adjust to school, if we don't have it now they'll join other things), give these women a chance to figure out who they are in this new world of theirs, and then welcome them into LIFETIME sisterhood.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

That's why I'm saying to impress upon them that it's NOT positive - that it's the equivalent of someone trying to scam you by selling you parking passes that are outdated, fake IDs or something of the like. Bid promisers = scammers. The End.

Also, I completely agree with VS's post. Rush was switched from deferred to allowing 1st semester freshmen several years after I left school. The GA's rationale was (I think these were her words) "we want to get them before they know any better." Needless to say, that mindset helped the whole system into the crapper as women who DIDN'T know any better joined in droves (and quit in droves after a year or two).

If what we are offering is as wonderful as we say it is, we need to throw out all the old cliches (it helps you adjust to school, if we don't have it now they'll join other things), give these women a chance to figure out who they are in this new world of theirs, and then welcome them into LIFETIME sisterhood.

If it's truly bid promising,(presuming a no-silence period rush) and not just lying to someone I'm not sure how it actually IS a scam. Just because you tell PNMs that doesn't mean it's true or that they're going to believe you.

I think revamping how we do formal recruitment would be good, but I don't think that changing silence without some system wide changes would be a change for the better.

[33girl]

One person cannot speak for an entire sorority. Therefore it is a scam. Easy peasy.

Many of these issues would go away if the national groups would take the focus off total and quota and put it onto retention instead. Throw out the award at convention for the chapter that made total for 60 years...start giving one for the chapter that has the lowest percentage of disaffiliated/inactive members in the biennium/triennium.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

One person cannot speak for an entire sorority. Therefore it is a scam. Easy peasy.

Many of these issues would go away if the national groups would take the focus off total and quota and put it onto retention instead. Throw out the award at convention for the chapter that made total for 60 years...start giving one for the chapter that has the lowest percentage of disaffiliated/inactive members in the biennium/triennium.

Sorry, I was referring to the hypothetical scenario I described above, where it was actually the sorority essentially creating a bid list and all but handing out bids. If the chapters followed through with it, no PNM will believe it's a scam. Yes currently most bid promising is a lie that can't be backed up and either way it is wrong.


I agree with you about the emphasis on quotas and totals. I understand to some extent the need for numbers on campuses with large houses that must be filled, but there was no reason for that obsession on my campus for example.