House passes health care bill on 219-212 vote

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Amazing, people are being investigated because of death threats they made via twitter after the bill passed.

link

Yeah, you didn't need a crystal ball to know that was coming.

There have been racial slurs and spitting at Black politicians; and homosexual slurs at the openly gay politician. That's how it goes when otherwise "nice people who aren't prejudiced, bigoted, or even homophobic or racist" perceive some sense of threat to group status and positioning. Hence, the "-isms" aren't about "bad people" or just about prejudice and bigotry.

So, I knew when I heard about the slurs yesterday that death threats were next. These people are attempting the social control/constraint mechanisms that have been attempted during every social change (perceived crisis).

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

Oh and SAKO. Shut the hell up and leave this discussion. If you are who I think you are you have been banned a kajillion times.

Which is why we should all ignore him and not feed him.

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

I am not so sure our Army and Navy are that well run from an efficiency stand point. Do you not believe there are billions upon billions of dollars in waste and fraud within the services?

I'm quite sure there's inefficiency. That wasn't the point. At all.

The point is: there can be inefficieny in the public sector and in the private sector. Nevertheless, there are some things more appropriately entrusted to the government to run, some things more appropriately left to the private sector and some things about which people can reasonably disagree (without being socialists, totalitarianists, hyper-free market capitalists, etc.). The claim that if the government runs it, it is automatically worse or more inefficient is a dodge that avoids dealing with the real issues.

If the military is beset with waste and fraud, is the answer to address that waste and fraud and try to stop it or to privatize the military on the assumption that the waste and fraud will disappear? Which is in the country's best interests?

To your point on private insurance carriers they are just that, private. If they can justify to their stockholders the Executives pay then so be it. I am not pleased about the disparity between what the person at the top makes versus the person at the bottom but that is for the companies and their stock holders to sort through.

Call me crazy, but I have a real problem with that business model when it affects the premiums I have to pay and the health care I and my family receive.

Originally Posted by Gatorbaby

Ladies..and gentlemen...please, please trust Federalism. Already, 37 (or 39?) states have filed suit against the national government. The balance between the national and state powers has not been struck and many states are upset (rightfully so) concerning the passage of this bill and the powers given to the national government under it.

Just because they sue doesn't mean they'll win. Anyone can sue. While I'll readily admit I haven't looked at all the issues that might be raised, I have a gut sense that these lawsuits are going to be a waste of state dollars at a time most states don't have too many dollars to waste.

ETA: Any legal challenges will be to specific aspects of the bill, not to the bill as a whole. Those states that have announced that they may sue have mainly indicated that they will attack the mandate that each person have insurance or be fined; that is the aspect of the bill the pundits and think tanks/legal foundations seem to be attacking and encouraging suit on. Perhaps ironically, the individual mandate aspect of the bill is quite similar to Republican proposals from the 1990s and to Mitt Romney's Masschusett's plan.

Meanwhile, this is a good read: Anti-Health Care Reform Suits Face Steep Hurdles: Not All Opponents Confident of Repeal, by David Weigel.

Originally Posted by moe.ron

David Frum's take on the political fall out:

I saw that earlier and thought it was interesting.

[als463]

Originally Posted by rasputn

ObamaCare is all about helping the niggers that are too lazy to go to school and get jobs. Most niggers don't even take care of their own kids. What do they contribute to society? We would be better off without them.

Rasputn, while I agree with some of your sentiments, it seems you are being a bit harsh. What I agree with is that ObamaCare is all about helping the LAZY PEOPLE that are too lazy to go to school and get jobs. Most LAZY PEOPLE don't take care of their kids. What do they (the LAZY PEOPLE) contribute to society? We would be better off without them (the LAZY PEOPLE).

Now, when I say lazy people, I mean people who have "lived" off welfare and made it a family tradition. It is one thing to need a little bit of help. I understand that. I do know, however, many people who have almost "passed the torch" to the next generation regarding the great benefits they receive on the 1st and 15th of every month. I've seen people on welfare clothing their children in namebrand clothes while feeding them ice cream for dinner and getting them the newest X-Box game, while co-workers who were Caseworkers/ Counselors could barely afford to buy their children a new winter coat because they had to pay off their COLLEGE loans. It disgusts me.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by als463

Rasputn, while I agree with some of your sentiments, it seems you are being a bit harsh.

Raputn = madmax. Seriously, we've all got to learn to stop responding to him. He'll be banned (for the, what, 25th time?) and all his posts will be deleted soon enough. Maybe, just maybe, if we ignore him he'll stop coming back again and again and again and again and again . . . .

[als463]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Raputn = madmax. Seriously, we've all got to learn to stop responding to him. He'll be banned (for the, what, 25th time?) and all his posts will be deleted soon enough. Maybe, just maybe, if we ignore him he'll stop coming back again and again and again and again and again . . . .

I feel like you've told me about Madmax, in the past. While I don't agree with his "wording" of things, he does make a point (provided we replace the "n" word with LAZY PEOPLE). I don't believe it is a black or white thing. People of all races are lazy. Once Raputn acknowledges that, I think he may have more interesting things to offer to this discussion.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by als463

Once Raputn acknowledges that . . . .

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. He doesn't care about discussion; he's having way too much fun trying to provoke people.