I Need Help!

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

It is almost like you have this farcical stereotype of sorority women and you have to try so hard to fit in with us, when you could just be yourself (though I'm not sure you're sure who that is) and still fit in...

... If you're not comfortable with who you are, why should anyone else be?

I also suggest going to your campus counseling center because identity crises can be scary and you probably have crap going on in your life greater than sorority membership and how you definite yourself with clothes and music.

Very well put, VandalSquirrel.

I reiterate: a sorority is not a panacea for fixing what's going on inside.

Neither are Internet boards/forums.

again, good luck to you on your journey.

[Shellfish]

Oh, I forgot. Open mic night at the coffeehouse? The '90s called and want their barrettes back.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Shellfish

Oh, I forgot. Open mic night at the coffeehouse? The '90s called and want their barrettes back.

Open mic and barrettes don't go together. You can only be beatnik individualistic or preppy conformist, not both.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

You remind me of someone I was best friends with all through junior high and high school, and how sanctimonious she came off (and why most of us stopped being her friend once we graduated). What you are saying how "I've never shopped at X and Y stores before" comes off rude. I haven't shopped their either, and I never will. I don't own any Lady Gaga but in the club (which I don't go to either) I'd jam to it.

It is almost like you have this farcical stereotype of sorority women and you have to try so hard to fit in with us, when you could just be yourself (though I'm not sure you're sure who that is) and still fit in. You're trying too hard and making it seem like it is a huge struggle and sacrifice for you, and trust that the sorority women will pick up on it.

We're not a homogenized monolith and a cult of personality, though there are trends at some schools that make us seem that way. The sooner you realize that and accept us as individuals, and yourself as you are, the happier you will be. If you're not comfortable with who you are, why should anyone else be?

I also suggest going to your campus counseling center because identity crises can be scary and you probably have crap going on in your life greater than sorority membership and how you definite yourself with clothes and music.

Thank you.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Thank you.

I just noticed my spelling and grammar errors, giving up coffee is rough!

What's the RuPaul saying from Drag Race? "If you don't love yourself how in the hell are you going to love someone else?" same thing here.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Is it just me, or is ATA's corresponding secretary wearing a bag from the bookstore as a shirt??

There's something jacked up w/ the page and it won't let me scroll.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by 33girl

There's something jacked up w/ the page and it won't let me scroll.

Too good to miss:

[dreamseeker]

Originally Posted by JuliaNJ

I put aside my own tastes just to have fun with these people.

i have a HUGE problem with this statement. it just seems terrible. many of the ladies here have addressed it and i'd like to underscore what they've said; i am not in an NPC sorority and i want you to understand that regardless of that its really important that you pause and reconsider.

if you long to call a group of women your sisters, you should be able to be yourself and enjoy them. Now we can't even sit here and bash the orgs that you're interested in because you haven't shown them who you really are. is this a facade that you plan on keeping up? if you were to move into a house, would you trash all your clothes and hide your tastes? if you like what you're doing now that's all well and great but the problem with that is that you're doing it for other women and not for yourself. and by the very fact that you said you put aside your tastes means that you don't really enjoy it.

i'll stop here before I come off as too harsh. but i think you're doing yourself and the women a disservice by hiding your true self.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by JuliaNJ

It was exactly what I'd thought it would be like. It was a little more frat than I'm used to.

I'm interested in knowing what makes something "frat" by your standards.

[JuliaNJ]

Hey everyone. This is kind of getting out of hand.

I came on here because I express myself better when I write. It helps me thing. And by posting (relatively) anonymously on a message board to people I don't know who might know a little bit about what I might be going through, I thought that maybe it could lead to some good feedback.

It certainly has. I just want to go over some things real quick that are on my mind:

1) When I said I'm "putting my tastes aside" I mean that I'm not worrying about whether or not people will think I'm cool for not listening to Animal Collective. Because that's a rut I've been in that I want to climb out of.

2) I decided to add some things to my wardrobe and to wear them out. I wore them out the first night I went out with the girls from AST. I'm not throwing away my Ramones shirt or anything like that. But I'm not wearing those things like a badge of honor, either. That's another rut that I'm trying to get out of.

3) I'm really not as crazy as you all probably think. I'm really not depressed or have any other real issues. I'm just a little tired of the same old in my life and want to see what else is out there. I think we all, whether we care to admit or not, do put on a mask at some point to identify ourselves as part of a larger group. I'm trying to take mine off for a little bit. I've been too wrapped up in looking cool and worrying about whether or not the bands I liked were trendy enough. I'm trying to get passed that and by finding people who don't care about that stuff I think will help me evolve past that.

4) I really don't think that "all sorority girls are the same." Especially not after this week. Last night, I hung out with someone who wants to be a history teacher. Another girl wants to work in speech therapy. Another is an accounting major. All from different areas, really nice, etc.

4) But just because I'm getting past that doesn't mean that I'm stopping what I was into. I just got back from seeing Dinosaur Jr.

5) I'm glad a few of you used your detective skills to find out where I went to school. But posting photos of people to mock them isn't cool, I don't think. What does that person have to do with anything, other than the fact that she went to the same school that I do? I'm sure you wouldn't like it if people posted your picture on a message board without you knowing about it.

Thanks for everyone who has really tried helping me out here. This time last week, I was pretty down in the dumps. But I haven't been this excited or happy in a while. I'm starting to see the world a little bit differently and myself as well.

[JuliaNJ]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I'm interested in knowing what makes something "frat" by your standards.

By "frat" I mean that a lot of the people were in fraternities. And I knew this because they wore letters and things like that. And at the parties or shows I go to, there usually aren't too many fraternity members. That's all I meant by it.

Some cute guys, tho.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by JuliaNJ

Hey everyone. This is kind of getting out of hand.

I came on here because I express myself better when I write. It helps me thing. And by posting (relatively) anonymously on a message board to people I don't know who might know a little bit about what I might be going through, I thought that maybe it could lead to some good feedback.

It certainly has. I just want to go over some things real quick that are on my mind:

1) When I said I'm "putting my tastes aside" I mean that I'm not worrying about whether or not people will think I'm cool for not listening to Animal Collective. Because that's a rut I've been in that I want to climb out of.

2) I decided to add some things to my wardrobe and to wear them out. I wore them out the first night I went out with the girls from AST. I'm not throwing away my Ramones shirt or anything like that. But I'm not wearing those things like a badge of honor, either. That's another rut that I'm trying to get out of.

3) I'm really not as crazy as you all probably think. I'm really not depressed or have any other real issues. I'm just a little tired of the same old in my life and want to see what else is out there. I think we all, whether we care to admit or not, do put on a mask at some point to identify ourselves as part of a larger group. I'm trying to take mine off for a little bit. I've been too wrapped up in looking cool and worrying about whether or not the bands I liked were trendy enough. I'm trying to get passed that and by finding people who don't care about that stuff I think will help me evolve past that.

4) I really don't think that "all sorority girls are the same." Especially not after this week. Last night, I hung out with someone who wants to be a history teacher. Another girl wants to work in speech therapy. Another is an accounting major. All from different areas, really nice, etc.

4) But just because I'm getting past that doesn't mean that I'm stopping what I was into. I just got back from seeing Dinosaur Jr.

5) I'm glad a few of you used your detective skills to find out where I went to school. But posting photos of people to mock them isn't cool, I don't think. What does that person have to do with anything, other than the fact that she went to the same school that I do? I'm sure you wouldn't like it if people posted your picture on a message board without you knowing about it.

Thanks for everyone who has really tried helping me out here. This time last week, I was pretty down in the dumps. But I haven't been this excited or happy in a while. I'm starting to see the world a little bit differently and myself as well.

Everyone has given some great advice and it looks like you are trying to "get over yourself" as I was about to suggest. This was a long time ago, but in high school I was an intellectual snob, art snob, music snob, etc. I was better than you because I didn't listen to WSP, DMB, Phish, etc., didn't own 7 jeans, and didn't wear Chacos (all stereotypically "popular" at my high school). I made fun of "popular" kids because I thought they'd make fun of me, so I went on the defense. I am getting some of that from you. In college I decided to "get over myself" and discovered that I enjoyed some of those bands, really enjoyed dressing up occasionally, and even bought the damn Chacos which I now live in. Because the only real reason I steered clear of any of that was because I was 2 kool 4 scool. You might never like DMB, but you're still so very focused on your music and clothing choices as well as the music and clothing choices of others that you won't be able to focus on new friends and activities, even though you say you want to. I joined a sorority freshman year and found out that, like I said, I enjoyed some of the things I made fun of. I also found out that I still liked parts of my old wardrobe and music and remained an art kid (art major). Which means four years later I'm a lot more well rounded than I would ever have been had I not gotten over the notion that my music choices made me "different" and therefore superior. You're as unique as a snowflake-just like everyone else.

All that said your article on a small campus might be a problem. Making friends with sorority members and eventually bringing it up and letting them know you have changed your mind now that you've gotten to know some of them (if that's the case...don't lie if it's not, but don't join a sorority either unless you're truly able to drop the attitude) might help. They're probably just as offended by your assumptions and stereotypes about them as you are about theirs towards you and your friends. And no one likes a hypocrite.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by JuliaNJ

I'm not throwing away my Ramones shirt or anything like that. But I'm not wearing those things like a badge of honor, either. That's another rut that I'm trying to get out of.

I think you think that people think WAY more about that Ramones shirt than you think they do. (I think.) You're so obsessed with yourself at this point, there's no way you're going to be able to reach out to or bond with the women in a sorority.

If you want to wear more girly clothes or change your looks because YOU want to do it, fine. But it seems like you don't have the balls to do it on your own - like you're using interest in Greek life as an excuse.

This is probably TMI, but my first serious boyfriend pressured me to wear sexy underwear and things like that before I was comfortable doing it. I really resented him for it. Later, I had no problem with it, but the fact of the matter was I wasn't ready for that at the time.

Don't do things before you and you alone are ready.

(I was going to say are Dinosaur Jr really still together, but since one of my sisters just got back from a Psychedelic Furs show I guess that is possible.)

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by JuliaNJ

I just came back from dinner with people from Alpha Sigma Tau. I had a really good time.

I obviously knew the girl I had a class with. The other two girls I recognized but didn't know. They're all juniors like me. They were definitely a lot more girly girly than me. But they were really friendly and welcoming. They were really happy to hear that I was interested. None of them brought up my newspaper column, which was a relief. They also said that I had an "interesting" style about me, which I took as a compliment. I told her that I was thinking about changing it up a bit to be more "normal." They laughed when I said that and said that they thought it was weird that I said something about them being "normal."

First of all, I'm happy to hear that my sisters on the opposite end of the state are so nice and welcoming

Because of that, I hope you're understanding that it's ok for you to be yourself. These girls were happy that you were interested in their sorority, they liked that you were unique, and they actually thought it weird that you said you want to be more "normal". That should tell you something.

Remember, also, that you don't HAVE to do everything that they're doing. If they're going to a club that you don't want to go to, don't go. One of the currently active sisters from my chapter doesn't really like mixers that are at fraternity houses. She'll show up for an hour (if they're mandatory), and then head out. The sisters know this, and they're ok with it. Don't feel like you have to do/like everything that the sisters are interested in.

But my motto is: try everything once (well, almost everything ) When I came to college, I HATED country music. People in southern NH/Massachusetts weren't really that big on that type of music, and it wasn't exactly something I was exposed to on a daily basis. But then I came to PA for school, and some of my sisters asked me if I wanted to go to a country bar one night. Of all the bars in Erie, PA (and trust me, there are a lot of them), they wanted to go to one that would be playing country music ALL night. I sucked it up and I went.. I figured if nothing else, it would be a fun night out with the sisters.

But I honestly had the most fun I've probably ever had at a bar that night. I think I might have recognized one or two songs, but the music was so upbeat (and some of the lyrics were hilarious), how could anyone not have a good time?!

But.. there are some sisters who wouldn't be caught dead in a bar like that. And that's alright.

And why not invite some of the sisters to something that you're doing? This past semester, some of the PNMs had invited the sisters to see a movie one night, and to go bowling another. You could always ask some of them to do something that you're interested in. You might be surprised at what they like.

ETA: Don't put so much emphasis on what you're wearing/what you like/what music you listen to. It will become very apparent to people that you're trying too hard. Just relax and be yourself!

[APhiAnna]

I think that you half understand what you are saying about wanting to change, but I think you are missing something too.

Being "yourself" and finding "yourself" is totally different than adapting the characteristics of another group of people. I think you seem to think that personality is defined by clothing, music, etc. I think that's an outcome of the "indie" scene...although there are many people that truly enjoy that style of music and dress, I also think it can turn into a refuge of people who didn't quite make it in the mainstream culture and so instead flock to a more accepting group so they can savor being an "insider". Therefore, Vampire Weekend and thrift-store vintage and Pabst Blue Ribbon and left of left of left of liberal political views become the defining characteristics of their "personality."

A real personality, though, is more about are you outgoing/introverted, generous/greedy, open-minded/close-minded, excited about or resistant to change, funny, intelligent, snobby, etc. Those are traits people gravitate to in the real world. I could meet a person who loves all the same music I do, or has the same shoes I do, but after 1 minute if our core personalities don't match then it isn't worth either of our time.

I think your "achievement" of buying new clothing is related to this. You were proud that you now fit in with what they wore, but if you don't have anything in common then I doubt they even noticed what you wore, and if you are compatible with them then it doesn't really matter what you wore in the first place. I think you are still so hung up on ridiculous stuff like bands that you are not stopping to consider if you are compatible with either group of women based on core personality.

A quick point: my friend loves 60s and 70s folk music and absolutely hates rap. But she still loves the bars we went to. Why? Not because of music, but because she was a natural extrovert who loved meeting new people and she loves to dance.

A bar is not clothing and music, a bar is the people there and the activities. Forget about the music being played, did you have fun dancing? Did you enjoy the people you met? Did you think the boys were funny, lame, engaging or immature beyond belief? There is a difference between being shy but enjoying yourself (ie, if you didn't have a lot to talk about initially but you had fun) and just not enjoying it or being creeped out. Because then you are back where you were before...not really enjoying your group of friends and bonding over music and clothing tastes because you can't bond over personality.

If you truly want to find out who you are, do what YOU want to do. If you want to say something, or do something, or wear something, DO IT and don't over think it. (Unless it's something really slutty or heroin or whatever haha).

In one of my marketing classes, we learned about the "Spotlight Effect". In an experiment, people were asked to leave the room and return clothed in ridiculous 80s clothes. They were then asked to estimate the amount of people who noticed the change. They said 95%. In reality it was 20%. In life, most people are NOT thinking about you at all. All these people that are judging you based on what you say, wear, listen to...statistically speaking, the majority are in your head. So just do what you want. That is different than "do what you think another group wants you to do".

Are you truly having fun with these girls, or are you just pretending that you are? It could be that neither group is right for you. Stop censoring yourself and just do what you would do if there was nobody judging you.

Even if you get in, a sorority will NOT fix any of your problems. If you don't join one, you can still change yourself anyways. Don't make this one event the only possible catalyst for change in your life. Realize that what people say and think about you is a) happening a lot less than you think, b) should NEVER effect what you do with your life as long as it is a healthy choice (obviously listen if your friends think you are doing something unhealthy) and c) is only a "perception" of you...if somebody thinks you are boring, it doesn't mean your core personality is boring. It means they think that of you, but they aren't privileged to see everything in your life, so how could they know that with any certainty? It simply doesn't make their judgment true.

So get on with what you want...life is short and youth is even shorter. Good luck!