Race & Sororities

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by UMryanne13

Hi
I'm a bi-racial (black/white) female attending Ole Miss in the fall. I want to rush, but I don't want to limit myself to historically black sororities. Is race a deciding factor in most sororities? Are any of you members of sororities with members of a race other than the majority?

Any advice or information will be greatly appreciated.

I'll try and make it simple for you, deepimpact2. The OP asked if race was a deciding factor - YOU chose to take off on a tangent about racially insensitive acts by GLOs when you couldn't come up with anything to support your assertion other than one old accusation. That, MC, is the tangent. Of course race will be discussed in this thread, but it is supposed to be about race and membership selection. When DP3 was called out on her use of heresay and her own opinion, she started throwing anything that could be construed as racist at the thread.

DP3 couldn't provide anything relevent other than that one 9 year old lawsuit - and didn't even provide evidence that the group in question was found guilty. I'm "done" because you won't stick to the topic in the thread or deal with any issues brought up by other posters. St. Augustine tells us that we need not try to convince those who are willfully stubborn - so I am quite content with the information I have provided ON TOPIC and in support of any pnm who wishes to do her research and chose between any and all of the sororities at her campus.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I'll try and make it simple for you, deepimpact2. The OP asked if race was a deciding factor - YOU chose to take off on a tangent about racially insensitive acts by GLOs when you couldn't come up with anything to support your assertion other than one old accusation. That, MC, is the tangent. Of course race will be discussed in this thread, but it is supposed to be about race and membership selection. When DP3 was called out on her use of heresay and her own opinion, she started throwing anything that could be construed as racist at the thread.

DP3 couldn't provide anything relevent other than that one 9 year old lawsuit - and didn't even provide evidence that the group in question was found guilty. I'm "done" because you won't stick to the topic in the thread or deal with any issues brought up by other posters. St. Augustine tells us that we need not try to convince those who are willfully stubborn - so I am quite content with the information I have provided ON TOPIC and in support of any pnm who wishes to do her research and chose between any and all of the sororities at her campus.

I provided information for more than one incident. If you originally felt that my accusations were baseless, then you should have been happy that I actually started pulling information as evidence of what I was talking about. Your response suggests otherwise and raises questions in my mind. My information IS on topic. It shows that in some cases race is still a problem and the OP may find herself being faced with race issues.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I provided information for more than one incident. If you originally felt that my accusations were baseless, then you should have been happy that I actually started pulling information as evidence of what I was talking about. Your response suggests otherwise and raises questions in my mind. My information IS on topic. It shows that in some cases race is still a problem and the OP may find herself being faced with race issues.

Race in MEMBERSHIP SELECTION is the topic - only ONE of your articles deals with race and membership selection, and it is hardly convincing evidence of a system-wide problem.

No one has said race isn't a "problem" on college campuses or elsewhere. The issue is NPC membership selection, and I guess NPHC membership selection, too.

Maybe I can simplify it further:

Race in membership selection - on topic.
Racially insensitive actions by GLOs - not on topic.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Race in MEMBERSHIP SELECTION is the topic - only ONE of your articles deals with race and membership selection, and it is hardly convincing evidence of a system-wide problem.

No one has said race isn't a "problem" on college campuses or elsewhere. The issue is NPC membership selection, and I guess NPHC membership selection, too.

Maybe I can simplify it further:

Race in membership selection - on topic.
Racially insensitive actions by GLOs - not on topic.

Those incidents also show how a tone can be set on a campus that would discourage black women from even trying to be a part of those groups. Furthermore, if members of these groups participate in racist activities, do ou really think they would then vote in someone black? Those activities demonstrate a certain mindset...one that isn't very accepting of blacks.


http://chronicle.com/news/article/1708/sorority-evictions-at-depauw-u-raise-questions-about-bias-and-looks

http://media.www.dakotastudent.com/media/storage/paper970/news/2008/03/28/News/Controversy.Surrounds.November.Sorority.Party-3289876.shtml

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

http://chronicle.com/news/article/1708/sorority-evictions-at-depauw-u-raise-questions-about-bias-and-looks

What in the world does Depauw have to do with race?

Now you're reaching.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

What in the world does Depauw have to do with race?

Now you're reaching.

Did you read it?

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Those incidents also show how a tone can be set on a campus that would discourage black women from even trying to be a part of those groups. Furthermore, if members of these groups participate in racist activities, do ou really think they would then vote in someone black? Those activities demonstrate a certain mindset...one that isn't very accepting of blacks.


http://chronicle.com/news/article/1708/sorority-evictions-at-depauw-u-raise-questions-about-bias-and-looks

http://media.www.dakotastudent.com/m...-3289876.shtml

You mean that perhaps qualified black women, for whatever reason, are not going through recruitment at all? Hmmmm . . . where I have heard that before?

If your take on it were true, we wouldn't see black or minority members of NPC chapters - and yet we do(even in the South!!!). That is the ultimate proof of what I and other NPC members have said - that no NPC group has a racial requirement, and that many blacks and other minorities have found a home in the groups of the NPC. That is not to say that it MIGHT or MIGHT NOT be an issue at Ole Miss - it could. But as I pointed out before and as you ignored, if qualified black women do not go through recruitment it will never change. AND even if the op were not to get a bid, it could be something other than her race.

So - deepimpact2 - what exactly is it you are telling the op? That she shouldn't even try?

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

You mean that perhaps qualified women, for whatever reason, are not going through recruitment at all? Hmmmm . . . where I have heard that before?

If your take on it were true, we wouldn't see black or minority members of NPC chapters - and yet we do. That is the ultimate proof of what I and other NPC members have said - that no NPC group has a racial requirement, and that many blacks and other minorities have found a home in the groups of the NPC. That is not to say that it MIGHT or MIGHT NOT be an issue at Ole Miss - it could. But as I pointed out before and as you ignored, if qualified black women do not go through recruitment it will never change. AND even if the op were not to get a bid, it could be something other than her race.

So - deepimpact2 - what exactly is it you are telling the op? That she shouldn't even try?

The problem is that you are trying to have an all-or-nothing stance. You can't do that. As DrPhil pointed out, I never said ALL. You can never say ALL about anything. My take on it is simply that racism exists in the white sororities and that it DOES affect membership.

With respect to the issue of qualified women not applying, MY point is that in some instances it is because of these types of incidents. YOU are just throwing it out there to explain why there aren't more black women in these groups. What qualified black woman in her right mind would want to join an org that throws or participates in black face parties?

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

The problem is that you are trying to have an all-or-nothing stance. You can't do that. As DrPhil pointed out, I never said ALL. You can never say ALL about anything. My take on it is simply that racism exists in the white sororities and that it DOES affect membership.

With respect to the issue of qualified women not applying, MY point is that in some instances it is because of these types of incidents. YOU are just throwing it out there to explain why there aren't more black women in these groups. What qualified black woman in her right mind would want to join an org that throws or participates in black face parties?

Well, she'd have trouble joining a fraternity because of sexism.

One issue is you are painting with too broad a brush - AND you are assuming that you know what determines membership selection in a NPC chapter. YOU DON'T. You can't. You may assume all you want, but the problem is you keep saying you KNOW.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

My take on it is simply that racism exists in the white sororities and that it DOES affect membership.

Not to nitpick, but we are not "the white sororities."

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

My take on it is simply that racism exists in the white sororities and that it DOES affect membership.

This sounds like a blanket statement that NPC sororities are racist. You don't have to use the word "ALL" to paint an entire group of organizations as racist. If you were trying to say that racism exists in SOME CHAPTERS of NPC sororities and MAY affect membership, I would agree with you 100%.

[FSUZeta]

[QUOTE=deepimpact2;1810718] My take on it is simply that racism exists in the white sororities and that it DOES affect membership.
QUOTE]

had you used the word "some" instead of "the", when referring to racism existing in white sororities, this argument might have ended many posts back. whether you meant to or not, your statement comes off as a generalization-therefore it is wrong.

oops-just saw that aopiangel and i were on the same track.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

that no NPC group has a racial requirement,

DUH

Is that what this back and forth has been about? I'm pretty sure deepimpact doesn't believe that NPC sororities have racial requirements (at least not in the 21st century).

What she seems to be typing about is the informal decision making process. Aspirants are assessed on a number of subjective criteria (i.e. when people say don't discuss religion and politics during rush). Her problem is that she is making a generalization when what she's typing about seems to be more the exception than the rule. You can't make generalizations from exceptions. It is not only wrong, but it is offensive.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Her problem is that she is making a generalization when what she's typing about seems to be more the exception than the rule. You can't make generalizations from exceptions. It is not only wrong, but it is offensive.

THANK YOU.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

DUH

Is that what this back and forth has been about? I'm pretty sure deepimpact doesn't believe that NPC sororities have racial requirements (at least not in the 21st century).

She seems to believe that there are informal racial requirements.

What she seems to be typing about is the informal decision making process. Aspirants are assessed on a number of subjective criteria (i.e. when people say don't discuss religion and politics during rush).

My point about membership selection is that she is making an assumption based on what she "heard" (she says on the news, but I can't imagine anyone stating in front of a news camera that they didn't vote for a pnm because of race). It is not "hiding" behind secret membership selection - it is simply a fact that membership selection is, like ritual, kept private, for both NPC and NPHC groups. My argument all along has been that because she is not in a postion to know what membership selection is based on she is not in a position to authoritatively state that race is or might be an issue for the op. She has been quite adament in stating that it is a problem - and when asked what she is basing this on has not presented a very solid case. I have also said several times that if black or minority pnms believe the idea that their race will prevent their being given a bid and thus do not go through recruitment then the situation will never change.

I find it sadly ironic that it is the NPC members who believe the bi-racial op should go through recruitment while some NPHC members have been arguing that she will/might be subjected to racism. If we were all these horrible racists, wouldn't you think that we would be the ones arguing that she shouldn't go through NPC recruitment? I think the best case for most NPC chapters being open to women of all races is the spirited response to the idea that the op will in not be given a fair shot.