If Hazing is Wrong, what's a better alternative?

[moe.ron]

would you guys also say that your GLO brotherhood/sisterhood is stronger then the military brotherhood?

Dude, fraternities are not trained to go out to wars. It's two totally different concept. A fraternity is supposed to supplement a gentleman's educational experience.

[anonymouse42]

would you guys also say that your GLO brotherhood/sisterhood is stronger then the military brotherhood?

I wouldn't say stronger, but actually, my chapter has several vets (which is a really high number given that our campus is tiny and has very few vets, and Greek life is rather unpopular), and every one of them says that our organization is the only place they have felt similar bonds to those created in the military.

And no, we don't haze AT ALL. So there goes that theory.

[knight_shadow]

^^^ Your chapter is not listed on your national website. If hazing created worthwhile brothers, why is your chapter now dormant?

[Forgotten Zeta]

my chapter has been "dormant" since 1991. i pledged much later and made the best decision of my life when i chose to pledge there. i've seen what the other fraternities called brotherhood. it was nothing compared to what was evident as soon as i met the brothers of my organization. since you don't know the reasons for the dormant status, i find it hard to believe that you can judge what goes on there. i'm still extremely close to every brother that i met while there and large numbers of alumni that were there long before me. that's brotherhood, not just a college experience but a lifetime bond that we have and instill into our pledge classes. hazing is an extremely loose term, and is not the reason that we became "dormant" to begin with. we have thrived long after our national hq left us based on our ideals of brotherhood, alumni support, the support of other chapters, and a desire to not let something that meant so much to so many die. i have never been beaten or publicly humiliated, that is dumb and something that we would never do to somebody who we would want to call brother. don't try to throw me into the mix with some of these other orgs who make the news because of death and alcohol poisoning. i simply said that making something more difficult than a little memorization makes it more worthwhile in my point of view. there's a reason that we have a choice when it comes to choosing what organization we affiliate with.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Zeta

you know what, i had responded to your idiocy, but now that i think about it. your not even worth the explanation. i pledged, not joined, pledged in 1999 and the chapter has been dormant according to nationals since 1991. the brothers that caused it, were not around when i was there, and the fact that it is still going strong is testament to how worthwhile our brothers are.

Wouldn't this count as a response?

Guess I hit a sore subject. Silly me...

[Forgotten Zeta]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Wouldn't this count as a response?

Guess I hit a sore subject. Silly me...

thats why i changed it

[Kansas City]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Zeta

my chapter has been "dormant" since 1991. i pledged much later and made the best decision of my life when i chose to pledge there. i've seen what the other fraternities called brotherhood. it was nothing compared to what was evident as soon as i met the brothers of my organization. since you don't know the reasons for the dormant status, i find it hard to believe that you can judge what goes on there. i'm still extremely close to every brother that i met while there and large numbers of alumni that were there long before me. that's brotherhood, not just a college experience but a lifetime bond that we have and instill into our pledge classes. hazing is an extremely loose term, and is not the reason that we became "dormant" to begin with. we have thrived long after our national hq left us based on our ideals of brotherhood, alumni support, the support of other chapters, and a desire to not let something that meant so much to so many die. i have never been beaten or publicly humiliated, that is dumb and something that we would never do to somebody who we would want to call brother. don't try to throw me into the mix with some of these other orgs who make the news because of death and alcohol poisoning. i simply said that making something more difficult than a little memorization makes it more worthwhile in my point of view. there's a reason that we have a choice when it comes to choosing what organization we affiliate with.

What exactly do you mean by "dormant"? Is your chapter recognized as a local fraternity by the university or are you working on becoming active again with your former HQ?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kansas City

What exactly do you mean by "dormant"? Is your chapter recognized as a local fraternity by the university or are you working on becoming active again with your former HQ?

His chapter -- the former Lambda Xi chapter of Lambda Chi Alpha -- lost its charter in 1991. It is not recognized by Slippery Rock University.

Here's the GC thread on it.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Kansas City

What exactly do you mean by "dormant"? Is your chapter recognized as a local fraternity by the university or are you working on becoming active again with your former HQ?

My guess would be that he pledged underground.

[APhiAnna]

Whether it's biological or cultural, I do think there are differences over how men and women bond.

For women, at least in the NPC culture, I do not think hazing works well at all. A friend of mine pledged a local that hazed very badly (not that all locals haze, but this did) and she resents her sorority so much. All of us that had the standard, no hazing NPC new member educations loved it. Although we may joke about how we wanted to be hazed, none of us really would have wanted to.

For guys (and maybe it is because my guy friends from back home are very much "jock/alpha male" types) it seems to work. No idea why. Every one of them was hazed (at a variety of different schools) and they have no regrets whatsoever. One of them was actually furious because a guy in his pledge class called into nationals and STOPPED his hazing...he wanted to continue it in full to prove himself.

While that would obviously not work for all guys, it seems like there are certain fraternities where it really does bond a pledge class together and there is little to no resentment.

My point is that I think the problem is that women who come from NPC and men who came from chapters where it would not work are voicing their opinions on hazing in chapters where it clearly works with no resentment or hard feelings. Illegal? Yes. It should obviously be illegal. But just because you don't think it would have been effective in your chapter doesn't mean that there aren't hundreds of fraternity chapters where it continues strongly and effectively.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

Whether it's biological or cultural, I do think there are differences over how men and women bond.

For women, at least in the NPC culture, I do not think hazing works well at all. A friend of mine pledged a local that hazed very badly (not that all locals haze, but this did) and she resents her sorority so much. All of us that had the standard, no hazing NPC new member educations loved it. Although we may joke about how we wanted to be hazed, none of us really would have wanted to.

For guys (and maybe it is because my guy friends from back home are very much "jock/alpha male" types) it seems to work. No idea why. Every one of them was hazed (at a variety of different schools) and they have no regrets whatsoever. One of them was actually furious because a guy in his pledge class called into nationals and STOPPED his hazing...he wanted to continue it in full to prove himself.

While that would obviously not work for all guys, it seems like there are certain fraternities where it really does bond a pledge class together and there is little to no resentment.

My point is that I think the problem is that women who come from NPC and men who came from chapters where it would not work are voicing their opinions on hazing in chapters where it clearly works with no resentment or hard feelings. Illegal? Yes. It should obviously be illegal. But just because you don't think it would have been effective in your chapter doesn't mean that there aren't hundreds of fraternity chapters where it continues strongly and effectively.

We need to keep in mind that some of what's classified as hazing today is laughable and ridiculous. When members talk about wanting their pledge processes to be more challenging, they're not always talking about the abusive stuff.

[Forgotten Zeta]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

We need to keep in mind that some of what's classified as hazing today is laughable and ridiculous. When members talk about wanting their pledge processes to be more challenging, they're not always talking about the abusive stuff.

thank you, i never once mentioned any kind of forced consumption of alcohol, physical or verbal abuse, but the second someone reads my post that is the first thing that comes to mind.

[33girl]

OMG TEH GHOST GLO!!!!

FWIW, lack of on-campus housing and the general laid-backness of the Greek system makes membership in an underground group more palatable at SRU than it would be at, say, Penn State or Ole Miss. What I am trying to say is that you don't get a super ton more advantages for obeying the rules.

Doesn't make it right, but it's the way it is.

[Ivy173]

My sorority claims not to haze. It definitely does not do anything hardcore like beating up pledges or forced alcohol consumption, but the actives are encouraged to yell at the pledges throughout the initiation week, telling them they're the worst pledge class ever, we can't believe they made it this far, they embarass us, etc. Pledges have to wear different costumes throughout the week, meant to be embarassing, and they have to sing certain songs on demand. And thorughout the whole pledge period we had demerits and merits--we were told you would have to work off the demerits once you became a sister, and a lot of us got thousands of demerits from sisters when they were drunk. One girl in my class dropped based completely off how many demerits she got. We were warned working them off would be a pain, and she had over 50 000. We found out after we initiated they didn't mean anything.
I'm a pretty new sister and I really disagreed with the process, but we were told it was to show our determination and loyalty to our group. Although I do have a stronger bond with my class, I felt way more loyal to the sorority as a whole before the initiation week. I think hazing can bring the pledges together but causes division within the sorority. There are sisters my class absolutely hate and avoid as much as possible based on their behaviour during our initiation.

Originally Posted by Ivy173

My sorority claims not to haze. It definitely does not do anything hardcore like beating up pledges or forced alcohol consumption, but the actives are encouraged to yell at the pledges throughout the initiation week, telling them they're the worst pledge class ever, we can't believe they made it this far, they embarass us, etc. Pledges have to wear different costumes throughout the week, meant to be embarassing, and they have to sing certain songs on demand. And thorughout the whole pledge period we had demerits and merits--we were told you would have to work off the demerits once you became a sister, and a lot of us got thousands of demerits from sisters when they were drunk. One girl in my class dropped based completely off how many demerits she got. We were warned working them off would be a pain, and she had over 50 000. We found out after we initiated they didn't mean anything.
I'm a pretty new sister and I really disagreed with the process, but we were told it was to show our determination and loyalty to our group. Although I do have a stronger bond with my class, I felt way more loyal to the sorority as a whole before the initiation week. I think hazing can bring the pledges together but causes division within the sorority. There are sisters my class absolutely hate and avoid as much as possible based on their behaviour during our initiation.

And what organization calls you a member?