If Hazing is Wrong, what's a better alternative?

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

American society as a whole is woefully bereft of rites of passages, particularly for boys: rites that mark the transition from boyhood to manhood. For many young men, fraternities (I am going to talk mainly about fraternities here; I'll try not to go too Robert Bly) and fraternity initiations provide such a rite. Indeed, the pledge manuals of many fraternities speak of initiation in terms of a rite of passage.

To DrPhil's disappointment, I'm going to follow-up on this boy/girl discrepancy.

MysticCat, are you suggesting (by the bolded (emphasis mine)) that boys have fewer rites of passage than girls, or that boys need the rites moreso than girls? The first time I read your post, I thought you meant the former (that boys have fewer RoP than girls), but now I'm thinking you meant the latter. I don't know that it matters either way, but I find it interesting that you differentiate between the genders.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

As with most things, I don't think this is about "male or female" at all.

. . .

Rites of passage are extremely important to both males and females. There are rites of passage in many if not most voluntary and involuntary memberships. The disagreement is regarding which rites of passage are deemed "hazing." This disagreement is not along gender lines, as far as I'm concerned.

I'd agree with a lot of what you say. My invocation of gender is more about such rites being different, not about whether it's hazing for females but not hazing for males or the like.

Originally Posted by SydneyK

To DrPhil's disappointment, I'm going to follow-up on this boy/girl discrepancy.

MysticCat, are you suggesting (by the bolded (emphasis mine)) that boys have fewer rites of passage than girls, or that boys need the rites moreso than girls? The first time I read your post, I thought you meant the former (that boys have fewer RoP than girls), but now I'm thinking you meant the latter. I don't know that it matters either way, but I find it interesting that you differentiate between the genders.

With the caveat that I was typing of the top of my head, without consulting a study, I think I was really thinking more the former, although I know I have read articles suggesting both. And maybe I focused on males because I am one and that's what I'm familiar with.

Sure, there are some rites of passages: Bar/Bat Mitzvahs, Quinceañeras, confirmations, even Deb Balls. But many of these occur at an early enough age (13 or earlier-15) that they don't really function as marking the transition to adulthood, even if they say they do. Of course, fraternity/sorority initiation doesn't so much mark entrance to adulthood as acceptance into a brotherhood/sisterhood. But I think such an initiation carries some significance for making the new member a better man or woman.

Is this making any sense?