Why do LGLO/MCGLOs follow NPHC practices?

[Little32]

^^That is a typically negative and rather simplistic spin, right down to the language, on what can be a positive phenomenon in these communities. It does not seem to engage the question of why at all. There is a reason why aspects of African American culture resonate with other ethnic groups both here and abroad, and that notion that you defined does not begin to question why.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

In Germany, the black people (which have noooothing in common with African-Americans in America except they're usually only 2nd generation immigrants instead of 10th from Africa)...dress exactly the same as the stereotyped "rap" popular "ghetto" culture. They wear long black t-shirts, saggy jeans, etc. They see the ethnic minorities in America and tend to reflect that culture...even if it has nothing to do with their own. So, perhaps, the other LGLO/MCGLO's, do with NPHC. It's only a theory, I guess, but an interesting one.

Blacks in Germany do have things in common with African Americans.

But what we have in common (and African American culture) can not be reduced to "rap" and "popular ghetto culture." There have always been African diasporic and international racial activism efforts that have connected us on much more meaningful fronts.

Other than those points of clarification, you are misapplying concepts.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by tld221

Come on, the average GCer knows that every org does service, on a national level at least. what the local chapter does of course is going to vary.

i just feel like those who mock are similar to Company A who come out with Product(tm) or PromotionalDealDuJour and then Company B, C and D do exactly the same thing. the example that comes to mind is how Subway's $5 Footlong. I dont even LIKE Subway, but for $5 ill take a sandwich. Meanwhile I LOVE LOVE LOVE Quiznos and while they also have the $5 subs, its really doesnt come up on my radar in the way Subway would. Quiznos is doing what Subway is doing, but i doubt they are going to accomplish what Subway did - in my opinion, kept their name relevant and on everyone's mind (cause lord knows i cant get that jingle out my head).

theyre doing what the first ones did, but not necessarily trying to accomplish what the first ones accomplished (or end up missing the mark overall).

I think your analogy misses the mark.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

In Germany, the black people (which have noooothing in common with African-Americans in America except they're usually only 2nd generation immigrants instead of 10th from Africa)...dress exactly the same as the stereotyped "rap" popular "ghetto" culture. They wear long black t-shirts, saggy jeans, etc. They see the ethnic minorities in America and tend to reflect that culture...even if it has nothing to do with their own. So, perhaps, the other LGLO/MCGLO's, do with NPHC. It's only a theory, I guess, but an interesting one.

Many Blacks in Germany did not immigrate there. They were born there after WWII and continue to live there.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Blacks in Germany do have things in common with African Americans.

Especially when you share a parent.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

In Germany, the black people (which have noooothing in common with African-Americans in America except they're usually only 2nd generation immigrants instead of 10th from Africa)...dress exactly the same as the stereotyped "rap" popular "ghetto" culture. They wear long black t-shirts, saggy jeans, etc. They see the ethnic minorities in America and tend to reflect that culture...even if it has nothing to do with their own. So, perhaps, the other LGLO/MCGLO's, do with NPHC. It's only a theory, I guess, but an interesting one.

I disagree with the above statements. Although Bob Johnson, Founder of "Black Entertainment Television" or BET, is African American, he has allowed for the annihilation of the self-esteems of numerous people of darker skin and African diaspora with the types of videos shown on the channel. That is probably because BET's parent company is Viacom and the satellite signal sits with Paramount and Dreamworks or one of huge news corporations...

Now, with that said, BET is shown in Germany. It would be easy to get a completely inaccurate view of the totality of African American history. Before the signal was accepted, the culture of Africans in Europe are probably similar to that in Britain, France, Holland and elsewhere.

The word on the street is that "Europe" wanted to "pacify" its kneegrows, and the easiest way is through the destruction of self-esteem and all out neutralization. It takes 20+ years. But, you are seeing its effects. The only thing "Europe" did NOT count on is globalization, media images and communications with others...

It's a new day...

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Especially when you share a parent.

That's so cool. My college roommate the summer before my freshman year was from Germany.

Her father would call from Germany every morning at 6:00AM thinking I was she. 6:00AM!!!!!!

[breathesgelatin]

On the handsign tip:

I think it's possible that some NPC members don't realize they're "imitating" NPHCs. I'm just being blatantly honest here, because some NPC members know little to nothing about NPHCs. We had no NPHC orgs on my campus until I was a senior. Basically the only reason from my relatively competent knowledge of NPHC is my involvement in Greekchat. I am almost positive that that's often the case for other NPC members, even on campuses with active NPHC groups. Unless, as DSTCHAOS mentioned, there is a good Greek Life office that encourages interaction between various councils and provides PR information on the activities of one to the members of the other.

I've often seen images of NPC groups making signs (ADPi making a diamond, KD using two women to make a KD, Tri-Delt making a Delta or triangle). It's not entirely clear to me that these women thought "Hey, NPHCs have really cool signs, we should do it too" which certainly would preclude them thinking "Hey, I should consider how this hand sign will look to NPHC, which treasures hand signs as part of their institutional identity." They might not even realize that NPHC does signs. If they do, they might not realize the important role NPHC handsigns play and just assume that it would be viewed as a tribute or "that's cool" type of thing by NPHC. I mean I could especially see this in the case of Tri-Delt making a Delta, for obvious reasons. I just don't think the majority of NPC members would make the connection... which is a sad testament to NPC members' lack of knowledge about NPHC... but in my experience, that's the way it works.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I'll go with a more...sociological look.

Sociologists call it "cross-ghettoization" (I believe it's the term), but it's not the word I would use, nor the word which aptly describes it. Simply put, ethnic minorities tend to reflect other ethnic minorities. The term "cross-ghettoization"(I think) is a somewhat harsher word towards hispanics and other ethnic groups.

In Germany, the black people (which have noooothing in common with African-Americans in America except they're usually only 2nd generation immigrants instead of 10th from Africa)...dress exactly the same as the stereotyped "rap" popular "ghetto" culture. They wear long black t-shirts, saggy jeans, etc. They see the ethnic minorities in America and tend to reflect that culture...even if it has nothing to do with their own. So, perhaps, the other LGLO/MCGLO's, do with NPHC. It's only a theory, I guess, but an interesting one.

no they dont. stop it right now.

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I think your analogy misses the mark.

ehh, i tried. it totally made sense in my head. i was comparing it to an advertising case study from a class way back when, but i didnt feel like going into detail and went for something simpler.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

On the handsign tip:

I think it's possible that some NPC members don't realize they're "imitating" NPHCs. I'm just being blatantly honest here, because some NPC members know little to nothing about NPHCs. We had no NPHC orgs on my campus until I was a senior. Basically the only reason from my relatively competent knowledge of NPHC is my involvement in Greekchat. I am almost positive that that's often the case for other NPC members, even on campuses with active NPHC groups. Unless, as DSTCHAOS mentioned, there is a good Greek Life office that encourages interaction between various councils and provides PR information on the activities of one to the members of the other.

I've often seen images of NPC groups making signs (ADPi making a diamond, KD using two women to make a KD, Tri-Delt making a Delta or triangle). It's not entirely clear to me that these women thought "Hey, NPHCs have really cool signs, we should do it too" which certainly would preclude them thinking "Hey, I should consider how this hand sign will look to NPHC, which treasures hand signs as part of their institutional identity." They might not even realize that NPHC does signs. If they do, they might not realize the important role NPHC handsigns play and just assume that it would be viewed as a tribute or "that's cool" type of thing by NPHC. I mean I could especially see this in the case of Tri-Delt making a Delta, for obvious reasons. I just don't think the majority of NPC members would make the connection... which is a sad testament to NPC members' lack of knowledge about NPHC... but in my experience, that's the way it works.

I thought that some NPC (and I assume IFC) orgs had handsigns before they became very popular with NPHC orgs. The handsigns were only used at certain times so they weren't a very visible tradition.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by tld221

no they dont. stop it right now.

I was going to ask for a citation for that but decided the main point could be lost.

[SWTXBelle]

Without getting into ritual, let me say that some NPCs have recognition signs that pre-date NPHC orgs, but they are not for public usage. DSTChaos is right.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

They wear long black t-shirts, saggy jeans, etc.

Funny, I see that with White teens all of the time. And I live in Minnesota.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I thought that some NPC (and I assume IFC) orgs had handsigns before they became very popular with NPHC orgs. The handsigns were only used at certain times so they weren't a very visible tradition.

This is definitely true, and a good point! I think that in some situations, like with this one, people define the NPHC as something trivial like stepping or handsigns or calls, which is highly wrong on two levels. Firstly, that is not all the NPHC is about, so it's very trivial to you guys. Secondly...you all have NO IDEA what goes on in our ritual. For all you know, we DO have stepping that we do...in private. Do we have hand signs and calls? Maybe. Like breathesgelatin said, some NPCs do use hand signs regularly in public, and I know NPC chapters that have their own calls that they use in public too (although I believe that is limited to their chapter...). The point is, it's very wrong to assume that if a group has a handsign or call, they are AUTOMATICALLY imitating the NPHC.

I do find it funny, though, when a MCGLO gets angry because another MCGLO is 'copying' them, but they do things like say, "XYZ INCORPORATED!", put on step shows and do other things that are definitely traditionally associated with the BGLOs.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Funny, I see that with White teens all of the time. And I live in Minnesota.

That's because...

you live in Minnesota.