Why do LGLO/MCGLOs follow NPHC practices?

[breathesgelatin]

On the handsign tip:

I think it's possible that some NPC members don't realize they're "imitating" NPHCs. I'm just being blatantly honest here, because some NPC members know little to nothing about NPHCs. We had no NPHC orgs on my campus until I was a senior. Basically the only reason from my relatively competent knowledge of NPHC is my involvement in Greekchat. I am almost positive that that's often the case for other NPC members, even on campuses with active NPHC groups. Unless, as DSTCHAOS mentioned, there is a good Greek Life office that encourages interaction between various councils and provides PR information on the activities of one to the members of the other.

I've often seen images of NPC groups making signs (ADPi making a diamond, KD using two women to make a KD, Tri-Delt making a Delta or triangle). It's not entirely clear to me that these women thought "Hey, NPHCs have really cool signs, we should do it too" which certainly would preclude them thinking "Hey, I should consider how this hand sign will look to NPHC, which treasures hand signs as part of their institutional identity." They might not even realize that NPHC does signs. If they do, they might not realize the important role NPHC handsigns play and just assume that it would be viewed as a tribute or "that's cool" type of thing by NPHC. I mean I could especially see this in the case of Tri-Delt making a Delta, for obvious reasons. I just don't think the majority of NPC members would make the connection... which is a sad testament to NPC members' lack of knowledge about NPHC... but in my experience, that's the way it works.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I'll go with a more...sociological look.

Sociologists call it "cross-ghettoization" (I believe it's the term), but it's not the word I would use, nor the word which aptly describes it. Simply put, ethnic minorities tend to reflect other ethnic minorities. The term "cross-ghettoization"(I think) is a somewhat harsher word towards hispanics and other ethnic groups.

In Germany, the black people (which have noooothing in common with African-Americans in America except they're usually only 2nd generation immigrants instead of 10th from Africa)...dress exactly the same as the stereotyped "rap" popular "ghetto" culture. They wear long black t-shirts, saggy jeans, etc. They see the ethnic minorities in America and tend to reflect that culture...even if it has nothing to do with their own. So, perhaps, the other LGLO/MCGLO's, do with NPHC. It's only a theory, I guess, but an interesting one.

no they dont. stop it right now.

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I think your analogy misses the mark.

ehh, i tried. it totally made sense in my head. i was comparing it to an advertising case study from a class way back when, but i didnt feel like going into detail and went for something simpler.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by tld221

no they dont. stop it right now.

I was going to ask for a citation for that but decided the main point could be lost.

[SWTXBelle]

Without getting into ritual, let me say that some NPCs have recognition signs that pre-date NPHC orgs, but they are not for public usage. DSTChaos is right.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

On the handsign tip:

I think it's possible that some NPC members don't realize they're "imitating" NPHCs. I'm just being blatantly honest here, because some NPC members know little to nothing about NPHCs. We had no NPHC orgs on my campus until I was a senior. Basically the only reason from my relatively competent knowledge of NPHC is my involvement in Greekchat. I am almost positive that that's often the case for other NPC members, even on campuses with active NPHC groups. Unless, as DSTCHAOS mentioned, there is a good Greek Life office that encourages interaction between various councils and provides PR information on the activities of one to the members of the other.

I've often seen images of NPC groups making signs (ADPi making a diamond, KD using two women to make a KD, Tri-Delt making a Delta or triangle). It's not entirely clear to me that these women thought "Hey, NPHCs have really cool signs, we should do it too" which certainly would preclude them thinking "Hey, I should consider how this hand sign will look to NPHC, which treasures hand signs as part of their institutional identity." They might not even realize that NPHC does signs. If they do, they might not realize the important role NPHC handsigns play and just assume that it would be viewed as a tribute or "that's cool" type of thing by NPHC. I mean I could especially see this in the case of Tri-Delt making a Delta, for obvious reasons. I just don't think the majority of NPC members would make the connection... which is a sad testament to NPC members' lack of knowledge about NPHC... but in my experience, that's the way it works.

I thought that some NPC (and I assume IFC) orgs had handsigns before they became very popular with NPHC orgs. The handsigns were only used at certain times so they weren't a very visible tradition.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I thought that some NPC (and I assume IFC) orgs had handsigns before they became very popular with NPHC orgs. The handsigns were only used at certain times so they weren't a very visible tradition.

This is definitely true, and a good point! I think that in some situations, like with this one, people define the NPHC as something trivial like stepping or handsigns or calls, which is highly wrong on two levels. Firstly, that is not all the NPHC is about, so it's very trivial to you guys. Secondly...you all have NO IDEA what goes on in our ritual. For all you know, we DO have stepping that we do...in private. Do we have hand signs and calls? Maybe. Like breathesgelatin said, some NPCs do use hand signs regularly in public, and I know NPC chapters that have their own calls that they use in public too (although I believe that is limited to their chapter...). The point is, it's very wrong to assume that if a group has a handsign or call, they are AUTOMATICALLY imitating the NPHC.

I do find it funny, though, when a MCGLO gets angry because another MCGLO is 'copying' them, but they do things like say, "XYZ INCORPORATED!", put on step shows and do other things that are definitely traditionally associated with the BGLOs.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

For all you know, we DO have stepping that we do...in private.

Let's not go too far now.

Originally Posted by fantASTic

and I know NPC chapters that have their own calls that they use in public too (although I believe that is limited to their chapter...)

I particularly find the IFC calls that I've heard extremely sexy.

But here's a big distinction: it tends to be limited to their chapter

Handsigns and calls that are ritual-based (or a nonritual tradition) and common across chapters are different than handsigns and calls that individual chapters create and that many NPC and IFCers may be unfamiliar with.

Yes, these handsigns and calls (and stepping) are not official components of NPHC orgs but they are some of the more visible traditions of NPHC orgs. That's why they are easily picked up by other orgs and many NPHCers hold onto them as a visible part of our identities.

[PANTHERTEKE]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I particularly find the IFC calls that I've heard extremely sexy.

LOL which ones?

None of the IFC chapters here have calls, but my chapter does this thing where whenever we win something or are being recognized for an accomplishment one of the brothers shouts "Can I get a woot-woot??" at the top of his lungs and all the brothers shout... wait for it... "woot woot!"

Lol.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

None of the IFC chapters here have calls, but my chapter does this thing where whenever we win something or are being recognized for an accomplishment one of the brothers shouts "Can I get a woot-woot??" at the top of his lungs and all the brothers shout... wait for it... "woot woot!"

Lol.

That created a The Village People image for me. But I'm sure it's one of those "you have to be there" things.

[PANTHERTEKE]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

That created a The Village People image for me. But I'm sure it's one of those "you have to be there" things.

LOL it is. It sounds better in real life than it seems on the internet.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

But here's a big distinction: it tends to be limited to their chapter

Handsigns and calls that are ritual-based (or a nonritual tradition) and common across chapters are different than handsigns and calls that individual chapters create and that many NPC and IFCers may be unfamiliar with.

Yes, these handsigns and calls (and stepping) are not official components of NPHC orgs but they are some of the more visible traditions of NPHC orgs. That's why they are easily picked up by other orgs and many NPHCers hold onto them as a visible part of our identities.

Right, and I think it's fair to say that a lot of newer GLOs, especially those targeted towards African Americans or marketed as MCGLOs, do take it from the NPHC. However, there is ALSO a reasonable window of doubt that they simply have NPCs or IFCs on their campus that do it as well, and took the tradition from them.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

However, there is ALSO a reasonable window of doubt that they simply have NPCs or IFCs on their campus that do it as well, and took the tradition from them.

Rare.

[ladygreek]

You say aspirant, I say prospect. You say prospect, I say potential. You say potential, I say wannabe.

Just trying to lighten things up a little.

BTW, we use to just say Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, until we started spelling Inc. out on our official letterhead. The reason had to do with establishing business credibility with our would-be funders and sponsors. Then it became a cool thing to say in steps.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

I do find it funny, though, when a MCGLO gets angry because another MCGLO is 'copying' them, but they do things like say, "XYZ INCORPORATED!", put on step shows and do other things that are definitely traditionally associated with the BGLOs.

When does this happen? The only time I've ever seen MCGLOs get upset about copycatting is when it's direct theft of organizational identity such as stealing pieces of a website, having letters that are intentionally similar (not going to call anyone out but this has happened recently with a multicultural sorority and there are issues with a Latina sorority that I'm aware of), using terminology that is specific to an org (for instance, another sorority in Florida started using the term "Emergence" to spite our chapters down there), or stealing concepts directly (like if a multicultural sorority other than Theta Nu Xi started calling their members "Theta Women").

It's like if someone signs onto Greek Chat with the screenname Blue1920 or DeltaDiva and is not a member of Zeta Phi Beta or Delta Sigma Theta, respectively. It raises eyebrows.

Things like stepping, strolling, saluting, etc., while they may be points of contention for some, are really nothing worth fighting over as has been mentioned many times on GC.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

When does this happen? The only time I've ever seen MCGLOs get upset about copycatting is when it's direct theft of organizational identity such as stealing pieces of a website, having letters that are intentionally similar (not going to call anyone out but this has happened recently with a multicultural sorority and there are issues with a Latina sorority that I'm aware of), using terminology that is specific to an org (for instance, another sorority in Florida started using the term "Emergence" to spite our chapters down there), or stealing concepts directly (like if a multicultural sorority other than Theta Nu Xi started calling their members "Theta Women").

It's like if someone signs onto Greek Chat with the screenname Blue1920 or DeltaDiva and is not a member of Zeta Phi Beta or Delta Sigma Theta, respectively. It raises eyebrows.

Things like stepping, strolling, saluting, etc., while they may be points of contention for some, are really nothing worth fighting over as has been mentioned many times on GC.

You know, I mentioned it because I see QNXi members on here upset all the time because another organization shares two letters (Phi Nu Xi, I believe?). By those standards, as an Alpha Sigma Tau, I should be VERY angry about Alpha Sigma Alpha! How dare they?? Copycats! In all seriousness, however, this is relative to my point - you can't ASSUME they're copying you. You don't KNOW that. And until you can say, with 100% certainty, that they are deliberately infringing on QNXi, then I find it a bit presumptuous to accuse them of it.

As far as using specific terminology, refer to my last post - the deliberate use of the word 'incorporated', using the term 'aspirants', etc are all directly from the NPHC...and I've seen them used by MCGLOs on this board repeatedly. I don't have anything against QNXi - don't get me wrong, I think MCGLOs can be great - but I do see a lot of hypocrisy sometimes.

If someone had the handle DeltaDiva, by the way, I would not be at all surprised to find they were a Tri Delt, which is part of my point. DST does not own the label 'Delta'. If someone in a local or national org used that as a reference, I would not immediately think they were copying DST...but some would, and that's not necessarily realistic.

Basically, my overall point here is that: a). You can never assume someone is copying you, and b). As members of GLOs, we are ALL going to have similarities in how we do things, even if it's as base as using Greek letters for our names. No one has really drawn the line over what's okay to use from existing Greeks, and what's not. I think WE all, as Greeks, have a good idea - but those founding local sororities may not have the same conception as some here that they are apparently not allowed to use calls or handsigns...at all.