Why do LGLO/MCGLOs follow NPHC practices?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

In Germany, the black people (which have noooothing in common with African-Americans in America except they're usually only 2nd generation immigrants instead of 10th from Africa)...dress exactly the same as the stereotyped "rap" popular "ghetto" culture. They wear long black t-shirts, saggy jeans, etc. They see the ethnic minorities in America and tend to reflect that culture...even if it has nothing to do with their own. So, perhaps, the other LGLO/MCGLO's, do with NPHC. It's only a theory, I guess, but an interesting one.

Blacks in Germany do have things in common with African Americans.

But what we have in common (and African American culture) can not be reduced to "rap" and "popular ghetto culture." There have always been African diasporic and international racial activism efforts that have connected us on much more meaningful fronts.

Other than those points of clarification, you are misapplying concepts.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Blacks in Germany do have things in common with African Americans.

Especially when you share a parent.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Especially when you share a parent.

That's so cool. My college roommate the summer before my freshman year was from Germany.

Her father would call from Germany every morning at 6:00AM thinking I was she. 6:00AM!!!!!!

[breathesgelatin]

On the handsign tip:

I think it's possible that some NPC members don't realize they're "imitating" NPHCs. I'm just being blatantly honest here, because some NPC members know little to nothing about NPHCs. We had no NPHC orgs on my campus until I was a senior. Basically the only reason from my relatively competent knowledge of NPHC is my involvement in Greekchat. I am almost positive that that's often the case for other NPC members, even on campuses with active NPHC groups. Unless, as DSTCHAOS mentioned, there is a good Greek Life office that encourages interaction between various councils and provides PR information on the activities of one to the members of the other.

I've often seen images of NPC groups making signs (ADPi making a diamond, KD using two women to make a KD, Tri-Delt making a Delta or triangle). It's not entirely clear to me that these women thought "Hey, NPHCs have really cool signs, we should do it too" which certainly would preclude them thinking "Hey, I should consider how this hand sign will look to NPHC, which treasures hand signs as part of their institutional identity." They might not even realize that NPHC does signs. If they do, they might not realize the important role NPHC handsigns play and just assume that it would be viewed as a tribute or "that's cool" type of thing by NPHC. I mean I could especially see this in the case of Tri-Delt making a Delta, for obvious reasons. I just don't think the majority of NPC members would make the connection... which is a sad testament to NPC members' lack of knowledge about NPHC... but in my experience, that's the way it works.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I'll go with a more...sociological look.

Sociologists call it "cross-ghettoization" (I believe it's the term), but it's not the word I would use, nor the word which aptly describes it. Simply put, ethnic minorities tend to reflect other ethnic minorities. The term "cross-ghettoization"(I think) is a somewhat harsher word towards hispanics and other ethnic groups.

In Germany, the black people (which have noooothing in common with African-Americans in America except they're usually only 2nd generation immigrants instead of 10th from Africa)...dress exactly the same as the stereotyped "rap" popular "ghetto" culture. They wear long black t-shirts, saggy jeans, etc. They see the ethnic minorities in America and tend to reflect that culture...even if it has nothing to do with their own. So, perhaps, the other LGLO/MCGLO's, do with NPHC. It's only a theory, I guess, but an interesting one.

no they dont. stop it right now.

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I think your analogy misses the mark.

ehh, i tried. it totally made sense in my head. i was comparing it to an advertising case study from a class way back when, but i didnt feel like going into detail and went for something simpler.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by tld221

no they dont. stop it right now.

I was going to ask for a citation for that but decided the main point could be lost.

[SWTXBelle]

Without getting into ritual, let me say that some NPCs have recognition signs that pre-date NPHC orgs, but they are not for public usage. DSTChaos is right.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

On the handsign tip:

I think it's possible that some NPC members don't realize they're "imitating" NPHCs. I'm just being blatantly honest here, because some NPC members know little to nothing about NPHCs. We had no NPHC orgs on my campus until I was a senior. Basically the only reason from my relatively competent knowledge of NPHC is my involvement in Greekchat. I am almost positive that that's often the case for other NPC members, even on campuses with active NPHC groups. Unless, as DSTCHAOS mentioned, there is a good Greek Life office that encourages interaction between various councils and provides PR information on the activities of one to the members of the other.

I've often seen images of NPC groups making signs (ADPi making a diamond, KD using two women to make a KD, Tri-Delt making a Delta or triangle). It's not entirely clear to me that these women thought "Hey, NPHCs have really cool signs, we should do it too" which certainly would preclude them thinking "Hey, I should consider how this hand sign will look to NPHC, which treasures hand signs as part of their institutional identity." They might not even realize that NPHC does signs. If they do, they might not realize the important role NPHC handsigns play and just assume that it would be viewed as a tribute or "that's cool" type of thing by NPHC. I mean I could especially see this in the case of Tri-Delt making a Delta, for obvious reasons. I just don't think the majority of NPC members would make the connection... which is a sad testament to NPC members' lack of knowledge about NPHC... but in my experience, that's the way it works.

I thought that some NPC (and I assume IFC) orgs had handsigns before they became very popular with NPHC orgs. The handsigns were only used at certain times so they weren't a very visible tradition.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I thought that some NPC (and I assume IFC) orgs had handsigns before they became very popular with NPHC orgs. The handsigns were only used at certain times so they weren't a very visible tradition.

This is definitely true, and a good point! I think that in some situations, like with this one, people define the NPHC as something trivial like stepping or handsigns or calls, which is highly wrong on two levels. Firstly, that is not all the NPHC is about, so it's very trivial to you guys. Secondly...you all have NO IDEA what goes on in our ritual. For all you know, we DO have stepping that we do...in private. Do we have hand signs and calls? Maybe. Like breathesgelatin said, some NPCs do use hand signs regularly in public, and I know NPC chapters that have their own calls that they use in public too (although I believe that is limited to their chapter...). The point is, it's very wrong to assume that if a group has a handsign or call, they are AUTOMATICALLY imitating the NPHC.

I do find it funny, though, when a MCGLO gets angry because another MCGLO is 'copying' them, but they do things like say, "XYZ INCORPORATED!", put on step shows and do other things that are definitely traditionally associated with the BGLOs.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

For all you know, we DO have stepping that we do...in private.

Let's not go too far now.

Originally Posted by fantASTic

and I know NPC chapters that have their own calls that they use in public too (although I believe that is limited to their chapter...)

I particularly find the IFC calls that I've heard extremely sexy.

But here's a big distinction: it tends to be limited to their chapter

Handsigns and calls that are ritual-based (or a nonritual tradition) and common across chapters are different than handsigns and calls that individual chapters create and that many NPC and IFCers may be unfamiliar with.

Yes, these handsigns and calls (and stepping) are not official components of NPHC orgs but they are some of the more visible traditions of NPHC orgs. That's why they are easily picked up by other orgs and many NPHCers hold onto them as a visible part of our identities.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

I do find it funny, though, when a MCGLO gets angry because another MCGLO is 'copying' them, but they do things like say, "XYZ INCORPORATED!", put on step shows and do other things that are definitely traditionally associated with the BGLOs.

When does this happen? The only time I've ever seen MCGLOs get upset about copycatting is when it's direct theft of organizational identity such as stealing pieces of a website, having letters that are intentionally similar (not going to call anyone out but this has happened recently with a multicultural sorority and there are issues with a Latina sorority that I'm aware of), using terminology that is specific to an org (for instance, another sorority in Florida started using the term "Emergence" to spite our chapters down there), or stealing concepts directly (like if a multicultural sorority other than Theta Nu Xi started calling their members "Theta Women").

It's like if someone signs onto Greek Chat with the screenname Blue1920 or DeltaDiva and is not a member of Zeta Phi Beta or Delta Sigma Theta, respectively. It raises eyebrows.

Things like stepping, strolling, saluting, etc., while they may be points of contention for some, are really nothing worth fighting over as has been mentioned many times on GC.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Blacks in Germany do have things in common with African Americans.

But what we have in common (and African American culture) can not be reduced to "rap" and "popular ghetto culture." There have always been African diasporic and international racial activism efforts that have connected us on much more meaningful fronts.

Other than those points of clarification, you are misapplying concepts.

I just saw your comment but yes, yes, yes. When will people get it?! When they educate themselves maybe?!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I just saw your comment but yes, yes, yes. When will people get it?! When they educate themselves maybe?!

They don't have to educate themselves because it ultimately doesn't matter if they get it. They just need to stop inserting their false expertise.