The Hazing Tradition

[Tom Earp]

Something disturbs me when I hear about Chapters bolting from thier Nationals and wonder why? Because they have rules to follow that are changed because of all the hazing that has taken place and the hue and cry to correct it along with all of the States who are invoking laws because of the hazing.

I do not care if it is a female or male GLO and to say male GLOs are more into it is calling wolf.

Since I only know LXAs even though I have read two others, no where did I see any hazing that was listed in them.

Again, I do not know how other GLOs work, but any changes in LXA have to be approved by the members at our National conferences, not by the Officers at HQs.

If your GLO does not have this, then I think you should ask why and have it changed. Of course, it is always easier to blame HQ and not the individuals themselves.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by jon1856

As if was my question to you, I think it still worth a direct answer.
If I was going through rush tom mow; how would you explain your actions.
If I was going through rush next year, how would you explain your actions.
And if had just pledged, how would you explain your actions.

Explain what actions? And why do the pledges/rushees care about the choice to go local or not? You're not making a whole lot of sense. If you're a pledge/rushee why would I have to explain anything to you? You're not a brother.

Because, as I posted, all I would see is a small, local drinking and eating club.
And I could hang out at bars,restaurants and clubs for that.

Wow. Way too insult all the local GLO's on this board. Try telling them that.

And all of them have rules and regulations that they have to follow.
And you post about your problems with hazing rules as much, if not more, than other policies. Which I why I asked you and posted about what seem to be a wish to have a group with no rules.

How do you figure this one, sportsfan?

I don't get where you're coming up with "no rules". We have plenty of rules in the chapter, that were created by the chapter. Nationals hands down rules because they're busy jerking themselves off to the belief of inclusion and how many people a fraternity pledges so they can get more money and expand, creating more shitty chapters. The only good thing Nationals gives us is insurance.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Explain what actions? And why do the pledges/rushees care about the choice to go local or not? You're not making a whole lot of sense. If you're a pledge/rushee why would I have to explain anything to you? You're not a brother.

So, you don't think it is fair to let the rushees/pledges know: "Hey, you thought you were going to join the national fraternity, Alpha Beta, but later this semester we are going to disaffiliate and become a local."

As much as the rushee might like the guys in the chapter, what if they don't want to join a local?

ETA: This is a sincere question, not trying to be snarky.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

So, you don't think it is fair to let the rushees/pledges know: "Hey, you thought you were going to join the national fraternity, Alpha Beta, but later this semester we are going to disaffiliate and become a local."

As much as the rushee might like the guys in the chapter, what if they don't want to join a local?

ETA: This is a sincere question, not trying to be snarky.

Aside from that, what University is going to stand by and allow an organization to split away from its HQ so that it may haze and ignore sound risk management policy?

-- Don't think so. You won't be a part of IFC and the University will refuse to affiliate with you. Good luck finding new members who want to be a part of that tradition -- especially when the national you split away from recolonizes on that campus.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Something disturbs me when I hear about Chapters bolting from thier Nationals and wonder why? Because they have rules to follow that are changed because of all the hazing that has taken place and the hue and cry to correct it along with all of the States who are invoking laws because of the hazing.

I do not care if it is a female or male GLO and to say male GLOs are more into it is calling wolf.

Since I only know LXAs even though I have read two others, no where did I see any hazing that was listed in them.

Again, I do not know how other GLOs work, but any changes in LXA have to be approved by the members at our National conferences, not by the Officers at HQs.

If your GLO does not have this, then I think you should ask why and have it changed. Of course, it is always easier to blame HQ and not the individuals themselves.

Great post!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

So, you don't think it is fair to let the rushees/pledges know: "Hey, you thought you were going to join the national fraternity, Alpha Beta, but later this semester we are going to disaffiliate and become a local."

As much as the rushee might like the guys in the chapter, what if they don't want to join a local?

ETA: This is a sincere question, not trying to be snarky.

Oh, that's an excellent question. I think they will have some complaints (and perhaps more) on their hands if they rush as XYZ knowing that they are working toward disaffiliating and going local.

I see depledging and even some bruised eyes resulting from not being forthcoming with this info.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Am I the only one who is a little "nervous" over this discussion and its implications?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Aside from that, what University is going to stand by and allow an organization to split away from its HQ so that it may haze and ignore sound risk management policy?

The University of the South.

Penn State University.

And they didn't break away so they could haze, they broke away because they disagreed w/ their nationals' alcohol free policies. Remember that whole deal about how all fraternities were going to be dry by 2000? Not so much.

EW is saying that he feels that 1) his HQ isn't letting his chapter pick members in the way that they want 2) the program they have in place to educate those members is unsound and weakens the chapter. That's not about alcohol or hazing. I would feel the same way if (example) ASA passed a policy that said we were going to concentrate on grades and had to take any rushee that had a 3.75 or above.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

So, you don't think it is fair to let the rushees/pledges know: "Hey, you thought you were going to join the national fraternity, Alpha Beta, but later this semester we are going to disaffiliate and become a local."

As much as the rushee might like the guys in the chapter, what if they don't want to join a local?

ETA: This is a sincere question, not trying to be snarky.

From all his posts, the guys that join his chapter are going to care less about the national networking, the national advantages etc. They are joining the EW's School Beta Betas, not the Beta Betas of EW's School.

[SWTXBelle]

Hmmm ... just wondering - who owns the house? I'm very familiar with what happens to breakaway church buildings in the ECUSA - and I'd be very surprised if there weren't clauses in most House Corporation documents dealing with what happens to the house if the national group disbands/leaves campus.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Explain what actions? And why do the pledges/rushees care about the choice to go local or not? You're not making a whole lot of sense. If you're a pledge/rushee why would I have to explain anything to you? You're not a brother.


Wow. Way too insult all the local GLO's on this board. Try telling them that.
No-you have done that quite while on your own. I was referring to my prior postings-as I am sure most others here understood.

How do you figure this one, sportsfan?

I don't get where you're coming up with "no rules". We have plenty of rules in the chapter, that were created by the chapter. Nationals hands down rules because they're busy jerking themselves off to the belief of inclusion and how many people a fraternity pledges so they can get more money and expand, creating more shitty chapters. The only good thing Nationals gives us is insurance.

I would, as would most people I know of and knew of during rush, would want to know all about the chapters I was looking at joining as a Brotherhood.

As for insulting most GLO members, I fear you have done that all on your own. I was, as it would seen others here understand, referring to your house as I posted in prior comments. As well as your own postings all through-out RM thread. You seem to have issues with many rules, regulations, laws and policies. And I just do not understand from where you are getting your information from, as an undergrad, to form some of your POV's.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by 33girl

From all his posts, the guys that join his chapter are going to care less about the national networking, the national advantages etc. They are joining the EW's School Beta Betas, not the Beta Betas of EW's School.

Oh, I understand, and I was a part of the complete trainwreck of a thread about this subject 2 years ago.

But, there are some guys who want to join the national Alpha Betas, not Alpha Beta offshoot. They are the ones I am asking about.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

So, you don't think it is fair to let the rushees/pledges know: "Hey, you thought you were going to join the national fraternity, Alpha Beta, but later this semester we are going to disaffiliate and become a local."

As much as the rushee might like the guys in the chapter, what if they don't want to join a local?

ETA: This is a sincere question, not trying to be snarky.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Aside from that, what University is going to stand by and allow an organization to split away from its HQ so that it may haze and ignore sound risk management policy?

-- Don't think so. You won't be a part of IFC and the University will refuse to affiliate with you. Good luck finding new members who want to be a part of that tradition -- especially when the national you split away from recolonizes on that campus.

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Oh, that's an excellent question. I think they will have some complaints (and perhaps more) on their hands if they rush as XYZ knowing that they are working toward disaffiliating and going local.

I see depledging and even some bruised eyes resulting from not being forthcoming with this info.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Hmmm ... just wondering - who owns the house? I'm very familiar with what happens to breakaway church buildings in the ECUSA - and I'd be very surprised if there weren't clauses in most House Corporation documents dealing with what happens to the house if the national group disbands/leaves campus.

Thank you all for understanding.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

Oh, I understand, and I was a part of the complete trainwreck of a thread about this subject 2 years ago.

But, there are some guys who want to join the national Alpha Betas, not Alpha Beta offshoot. They are the ones I am asking about.

Then I wonder whether the newer members would have some say in the whole matter.

[jon1856]

Hey EW;
I meant to ask you in one of my prior posting something:
While you indicated that you are at Arkansas (and have started a thread elsewhere about elections on a campus), you missed stating what chapter you are such an active and concerned member of.