The Hazing Tradition

[Elephant Walk]

So one's Chapter would go from being part of a National Group Organization to being a small, local, eating and drinking club with a side order of let us ignore all rules, laws, and codes of conduct?
And if I were thinking of going to your school (which BTB was not and never has been on my radar) just what would make me interested in even talking to you?

And please do not even bring to the table anything about money.
Perhaps that is not fair as most likely that is what is going to be needed to cover
bills for damages and law suits.

Didn't see this one Jon... I don't know if I even knew it was directed at me?

You're really missing the point of why someone doesn't like nationals. Very much so missing the point. It is not so much about hazing (very little of it is...seeing as nationals rarely touch good chapters). That's very shortsighted and ignorant. It's about the new programs nationals puts in place. Crap like the Balanced Man is the worst thing to hit chapters. 8 week pledgeships. Sending nationals that complain about the lack of diversity in the chapter. Riding against the traditional conservatism of the chapter. It's not about hazing, drinking, and not caring about law. It's about the liberal/illogical progression of nationals. The pressure the nationals puts on for this sort of thing is obnoxious.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Didn't see this one Jon... I don't know if I even knew it was directed at me?

You're really missing the point of why someone doesn't like nationals. Very much so missing the point. It is not so much about hazing (very little of it is...seeing as nationals rarely touch good chapters). That's very shortsighted and ignorant. It's about the new programs nationals puts in place. Crap like the Balanced Man is the worst thing to hit chapters. 8 week pledge-ships. Sending nationals that complain about the lack of diversity in the chapter. Riding against the traditional conservatism of the chapter. It's not about hazing, drinking, and not caring about law. It's about the liberal/illogical progression of nationals. The pressure the nationals puts on for this sort of thing is obnoxious.

As if was my question to you, I think it still worth a direct answer.
If I was going through rush tom mow; how would you explain your actions.
If I was going through rush next year, how would you explain your actions.
And if had just pledged, how would you explain your actions.

Because, as I posted, all I would see is a small, local drinking and eating club.
And I could hang out at bars,restaurants and clubs for that.
And all of them have rules and regulations that they have to follow.
And you post about your problems with hazing rules as much, if not more, than other policies. Which I why I asked you and posted about what seem to be a wish to have a group with no rules.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by jon1856

As if was my question to you, I think it still worth a direct answer.
If I was going through rush tom mow; how would you explain your actions.
If I was going through rush next year, how would you explain your actions.
And if had just pledged, how would you explain your actions.

Explain what actions? And why do the pledges/rushees care about the choice to go local or not? You're not making a whole lot of sense. If you're a pledge/rushee why would I have to explain anything to you? You're not a brother.

Because, as I posted, all I would see is a small, local drinking and eating club.
And I could hang out at bars,restaurants and clubs for that.

Wow. Way too insult all the local GLO's on this board. Try telling them that.

And all of them have rules and regulations that they have to follow.
And you post about your problems with hazing rules as much, if not more, than other policies. Which I why I asked you and posted about what seem to be a wish to have a group with no rules.

How do you figure this one, sportsfan?

I don't get where you're coming up with "no rules". We have plenty of rules in the chapter, that were created by the chapter. Nationals hands down rules because they're busy jerking themselves off to the belief of inclusion and how many people a fraternity pledges so they can get more money and expand, creating more shitty chapters. The only good thing Nationals gives us is insurance.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Explain what actions? And why do the pledges/rushees care about the choice to go local or not? You're not making a whole lot of sense. If you're a pledge/rushee why would I have to explain anything to you? You're not a brother.

So, you don't think it is fair to let the rushees/pledges know: "Hey, you thought you were going to join the national fraternity, Alpha Beta, but later this semester we are going to disaffiliate and become a local."

As much as the rushee might like the guys in the chapter, what if they don't want to join a local?

ETA: This is a sincere question, not trying to be snarky.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

So, you don't think it is fair to let the rushees/pledges know: "Hey, you thought you were going to join the national fraternity, Alpha Beta, but later this semester we are going to disaffiliate and become a local."

As much as the rushee might like the guys in the chapter, what if they don't want to join a local?

ETA: This is a sincere question, not trying to be snarky.

Aside from that, what University is going to stand by and allow an organization to split away from its HQ so that it may haze and ignore sound risk management policy?

-- Don't think so. You won't be a part of IFC and the University will refuse to affiliate with you. Good luck finding new members who want to be a part of that tradition -- especially when the national you split away from recolonizes on that campus.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Aside from that, what University is going to stand by and allow an organization to split away from its HQ so that it may haze and ignore sound risk management policy?

The University of the South.

Penn State University.

And they didn't break away so they could haze, they broke away because they disagreed w/ their nationals' alcohol free policies. Remember that whole deal about how all fraternities were going to be dry by 2000? Not so much.

EW is saying that he feels that 1) his HQ isn't letting his chapter pick members in the way that they want 2) the program they have in place to educate those members is unsound and weakens the chapter. That's not about alcohol or hazing. I would feel the same way if (example) ASA passed a policy that said we were going to concentrate on grades and had to take any rushee that had a 3.75 or above.

[SWTXBelle]

Hmmm ... just wondering - who owns the house? I'm very familiar with what happens to breakaway church buildings in the ECUSA - and I'd be very surprised if there weren't clauses in most House Corporation documents dealing with what happens to the house if the national group disbands/leaves campus.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

So, you don't think it is fair to let the rushees/pledges know: "Hey, you thought you were going to join the national fraternity, Alpha Beta, but later this semester we are going to disaffiliate and become a local."

As much as the rushee might like the guys in the chapter, what if they don't want to join a local?

ETA: This is a sincere question, not trying to be snarky.

Oh, that's an excellent question. I think they will have some complaints (and perhaps more) on their hands if they rush as XYZ knowing that they are working toward disaffiliating and going local.

I see depledging and even some bruised eyes resulting from not being forthcoming with this info.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

So, you don't think it is fair to let the rushees/pledges know: "Hey, you thought you were going to join the national fraternity, Alpha Beta, but later this semester we are going to disaffiliate and become a local."

As much as the rushee might like the guys in the chapter, what if they don't want to join a local?

ETA: This is a sincere question, not trying to be snarky.

From all his posts, the guys that join his chapter are going to care less about the national networking, the national advantages etc. They are joining the EW's School Beta Betas, not the Beta Betas of EW's School.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by 33girl

From all his posts, the guys that join his chapter are going to care less about the national networking, the national advantages etc. They are joining the EW's School Beta Betas, not the Beta Betas of EW's School.

Oh, I understand, and I was a part of the complete trainwreck of a thread about this subject 2 years ago.

But, there are some guys who want to join the national Alpha Betas, not Alpha Beta offshoot. They are the ones I am asking about.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

So, you don't think it is fair to let the rushees/pledges know: "Hey, you thought you were going to join the national fraternity, Alpha Beta, but later this semester we are going to disaffiliate and become a local."

As much as the rushee might like the guys in the chapter, what if they don't want to join a local?

ETA: This is a sincere question, not trying to be snarky.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Aside from that, what University is going to stand by and allow an organization to split away from its HQ so that it may haze and ignore sound risk management policy?

-- Don't think so. You won't be a part of IFC and the University will refuse to affiliate with you. Good luck finding new members who want to be a part of that tradition -- especially when the national you split away from recolonizes on that campus.

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Oh, that's an excellent question. I think they will have some complaints (and perhaps more) on their hands if they rush as XYZ knowing that they are working toward disaffiliating and going local.

I see depledging and even some bruised eyes resulting from not being forthcoming with this info.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Hmmm ... just wondering - who owns the house? I'm very familiar with what happens to breakaway church buildings in the ECUSA - and I'd be very surprised if there weren't clauses in most House Corporation documents dealing with what happens to the house if the national group disbands/leaves campus.

Thank you all for understanding.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

Oh, I understand, and I was a part of the complete trainwreck of a thread about this subject 2 years ago.

But, there are some guys who want to join the national Alpha Betas, not Alpha Beta offshoot. They are the ones I am asking about.

Then I wonder whether the newer members would have some say in the whole matter.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Explain what actions? And why do the pledges/rushees care about the choice to go local or not? You're not making a whole lot of sense. If you're a pledge/rushee why would I have to explain anything to you? You're not a brother.


Wow. Way too insult all the local GLO's on this board. Try telling them that.
No-you have done that quite while on your own. I was referring to my prior postings-as I am sure most others here understood.

How do you figure this one, sportsfan?

I don't get where you're coming up with "no rules". We have plenty of rules in the chapter, that were created by the chapter. Nationals hands down rules because they're busy jerking themselves off to the belief of inclusion and how many people a fraternity pledges so they can get more money and expand, creating more shitty chapters. The only good thing Nationals gives us is insurance.

I would, as would most people I know of and knew of during rush, would want to know all about the chapters I was looking at joining as a Brotherhood.

As for insulting most GLO members, I fear you have done that all on your own. I was, as it would seen others here understand, referring to your house as I posted in prior comments. As well as your own postings all through-out RM thread. You seem to have issues with many rules, regulations, laws and policies. And I just do not understand from where you are getting your information from, as an undergrad, to form some of your POV's.