The Hazing Tradition

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Many of us have grown up around fraternities and certain chapters all of our lives. We know how they have operated, and it is disturbing when the MO is changed into something lesser than what we expect.

I see what you mean on the surface level.

But beyond the surface, this reeks more of a sense of entitlement than a yearning to maintain tradition. Are these fraternities' national entities really doing away with the tride and true traditions that many people "grew up around" and have "known about/expected" all of their lives? That phenomenon might be its own thread.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I see what you mean on the surface level.

But beyond the surface, this reeks more of a sense of entitlement than a yearning to maintain tradition. Are these fraternities' national entities really doing away with the tride and true traditions that many people "grew up around" and have "known about/expected" all of their lives? That phenomenon might be its own thread.

So, these sense of entitlement and tradition should check mate what importance means/

No, I am not arguing with you on that point, but what mccallan said.

That was one of the most ignorant posts that I have seen when one is bigger than the whole.

So this one chapter tells the whole screw you we are going on our own and be better?

Sorry, how many ways can one spell stupid or ignorant?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I see what you mean on the surface level.

But beyond the surface, this reeks more of a sense of entitlement than a yearning to maintain tradition. Are these fraternities' national entities really doing away with the tride and true traditions that many people "grew up around" and have "known about/expected" all of their lives? That phenomenon might be its own thread.

When you are told who you are supposed to rush, how long your pledge period has to be, what you can do, what you can't do, etc. etc. etc.............then yes, I feel that many of the traditions are being done away with.

Why can't I have a sense of self-entitlement in this situation? Is it bad? Many of these programs that nationals try to institute in chapters turns them all into watered down versions of their former self, imo.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by macallan25

When you are told who you are supposed to rush, how long your pledge period has to be, what you can do, what you can't do, etc. etc. etc.............then yes, I feel that many of the traditions are being done away with.

So there was a time when such regulations didn't exist at all? I'm curious.

Originally Posted by macallan25

Why can't I have a sense of self-entitlement in this situation? Is it bad? Many of these programs that nationals try to institute in chapters turns them all into watered down versions of their former self, imo.

I'm really talking about your belief that there are people who had a knowledge of "how they operated" of these organizations and chapters prior to coming to college. How a nonmember (and even a noncollege student) knows about "how they operated" is something that members need to correct.

There's a difference between saying "these changes are at a detriment to the organization as a whole and we are petitioning for change" and saying "this isn't what my chapter brothers and I (who are a small % of the organization) thought we were signing up for when our fathers told us about this fraternity...so we're disaffiliating." What happens after you graduate?

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I'm really talking about your belief that there are people who had a knowledge of "how they operated" of these organizations and chapters prior to coming to college. How a nonmember (and even a noncollege student) knows about "how they operated" is something that members need to correct.

I can't speak for macallan, but I think by saying we know "how they operated", we're more discussing the conservatism of the chapter, pledgeship (because often we know from famiily or friends what it's suppose to be like, i.e. not 8 weeks long), and this sort of thing. Not the specific operations, but I'm clearly seeking a chapter operation that is conservative, like my upbringing.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

So there was a time when such regulations didn't exist at all? I'm curious.



I'm really talking about your belief that there are people who had a knowledge of "how they operated" of these organizations and chapters prior to coming to college. How a nonmember (and even a noncollege student) knows about "how they operated" is something that members need to correct.

There's a difference between saying "these changes are at a detriment to the organization as a whole and we are petitioning for change" and saying "this isn't what my chapter brothers and I (who are a small % of the organization) thought we were signing up for when our fathers told us about this fraternity...so we're disaffiliating." What happens after you graduate?

I wasn't really talking about rituals and such in reference to knowing how our chapters operated.

Take for instance SAE down here at Texas. My dad went through at our chapter. So did tons of his friends. A bunch of my older friends went through here as well. I grew up around the house and got to hear them talk about it all the time. I went in to pledgeship knowing quite a bit about what to expect. How long the pledge program was going to be.......things of that nature.

I think you know my stance, as well as others on how the chapter relates to the whole so I wont' go there.

As far as what happens after I graduate......what do you mean?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I wasn't really talking about rituals and such in reference to knowing how our chapters operated.

Take for instance SAE down here at Texas. My dad went through at our chapter. So did tons of his friends. A bunch of my older friends went through here as well. I grew up around the house and got to hear them talk about it all the time. I went in to pledgeship knowing quite a bit about what to expect. How long the pledge program was going to be.......things of that nature.

I think you know my stance, as well as others on how the chapter relates to the whole so I wont' go there.

Gotcha. Thanks.

Originally Posted by macallan25

As far as what happens after I graduate......what do you mean?

You weren't supporting a chapter disaffiliating but those who choose to go local, do they concede their ability to remain active with SAE when they graduate?

The way people see their organizations as a crazy co-ed is often different than they will when they get older and more mature. Assuming that some of these people don't see their fraternity as something they did for college and that's it.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Gotcha. Thanks.

You weren't supporting a chapter disaffiliating but those who choose to go local, do they concede their ability to remain active with SAE when they graduate?

The way people see their organizations as a crazy co-ed is often different than they will when they get older and more mature. Assuming that some of these people don't see their fraternity as something they did for college and that's it.

That is a good question. I would assume that if a chapter went local then their allegiance would remain with the chapter outside of college. I'm not really sure how it would work if a graduated member of a local wanted to remain involved with the national chapter that they were previously affiliated with. I wouldn't think that they would be rejected if they wanted to donate money or something like that.

You know, I'll probably approach being in a fraternity when I am out of college the same way my dad did. Yes, it was a "college thing" for him, but he still donates to the chapter, goes to events at the chapter (game day tailgates, golf tournaments, etc.) I think we both view the fraternity experience as a life long one in the sense of friends we have made...things of that nature.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by macallan25

That is a good question. I would assume that if a chapter went local then their allegiance would remain with the chapter outside of college. I'm not really sure how it would work if a graduated member of a local wanted to remain involved with the national chapter that they were previously affiliated with. I wouldn't think that they would be rejected if they wanted to donate money or something like that.

I think that probably the same thing would happen that happens when a chapter goes from local to national. Some people are not in favor of it and don't stay involved. It goes both ways. Even if the majority of people are in favor of it, I think that there are always at least a few who aren't in favor of the transition. Whether they voice that opinion is another matter.