The Hazing Tradition

[33girl]

This thread is starting to remind me of "you can be against the war and still support the troops" or the opposite of that, and all the permutations thereof.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by 33girl

This thread is starting to remind me of "you can be against the war and still support the troops" or the opposite of that, and all the permutations thereof.

It reminds me more of the NPHC threads that debate paper vs. pledging since the NPHC groups did away with pledging. Some of the inter/national fraternities have not eliminated pledging completely, but have put a lot of restrictions on it that some chapters don't like.

I do find it interesting that these young men are seeing programs like the Balanced Man and Men of Principle type programs as a detriment. It seems to me that the goals of these programs are to help young men become gentlemen, obeying the law, readying themselves for gainful employment in leadership positions and holding high ideals. Is it simply that there is disagreement on how best to attain these goals?

[bowsandtoes]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I do find it interesting that these young men are seeing programs like the Balanced Man and Men of Principle type programs as a detriment. It seems to me that the goals of these programs are to help young men become gentlemen, obeying the law, readying themselves for gainful employment in leadership positions and holding high ideals. Is it simply that there is disagreement on how best to attain these goals?

At its core, the 'Balanced Man Program' is little more than a collegiate versions for the Boy Scouts. I could write a paper on the abomination that is the BMP but haven't really got the time. I'll point out a few....issues, that I have with the program.

"In 1989, SigEp instated the "Balanced Man Program" the BMP, as it is commonly known, is a program which focusses on the development of the individual, rather than the whole group"

This is the exact OPPOSITE of why I joined a fraternity. The BMP shifts the focus away from brotherhood towards the individual and personal gain. In the BMP you go through different 'levels' of brotherhood. A fraternity isn't a video game. Bonds of brotherhood take time, you don't just 'level up'. Each level has different requirements for personal goals (academics, community service, on-campus organizations, etc.) While nice and dandy, these can be accomplished alone and do nothing to promote brotherhood.

"Chapters are accepted into the Balanced Man Program only after an overwhelming majority of the chapter votes to convert from pledging model to Balance Man Project Chapter."

This a complete lie and the opposite of what happens. In almost every case nationals takes a struggling chapter and rather than offer to help, will force them to switch to a a BM program at the threat of removing their charter. Also, nationals won't colonize a new chapter unless they are BMP. The result is that the majority of BMP chapters are houses that are either brand new or are rebuilding from scratch. Of course the first thing nationals tells these chapters to do is get their numbers up. As all of you know its pretty hard to recruit when you already have a bad reputation on campus or none at all, so a lot of these chapters are extremely generous in their giving of bids (leading to nicknames of Sigma Phi Everyone at a lot of campuses). That open door policy along with the elimination of pledgeship means that people are signing their name, getting their letters, and learning aspects of the ritual right of the back. All of these factors lead to a lack of respect for BMP chapters at many campuses.

I could go on but time does not permit.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by bowsandtoes

This a complete lie and the opposite of what happens. In almost every case nationals takes a struggling chapter and rather than offer to help, will force them to switch to a a BM program at the threat of removing their charter. Also, nationals won't colonize a new chapter unless they are BMP. The result is that the majority of BMP chapters are houses that are either brand new or are rebuilding from scratch. Of course the first thing nationals tells these chapters to do is get their numbers up. As all of you know its pretty hard to recruit when you already have a bad reputation on campus or none at all, so a lot of these chapters are extremely generous in their giving of bids (leading to nicknames of Sigma Phi Everyone at a lot of campuses). That open door policy along with the elimination of pledgeship means that people are signing their name, getting their letters, and learning aspects of the ritual right of the back. All of these factors lead to a lack of respect for BMP chapters at many campuses.

I could go on but time does not permit.

Completely correct. Part of the reason you find very, very few good Sig Ep chapters in the South. Texas is mid-tier, Ole Miss is mid-tier, and SoCar is as well. Those are the best chapters (that I can think of) of Sig Ep in the South. They're not even tops on campus.

BMP completely ruined the chapter here. It's about to fall off soon.

[bowsandtoes]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Completely correct. Part of the reason you find very, very few good Sig Ep chapters in the South. Texas is mid-tier, Ole Miss is mid-tier, and SoCar is as well. Those are the best chapters (that I can think of) of Sig Ep in the South. They're not even tops on campus.

We're not middle tier here. ATO/KappaSig size chapters are considered middle tier and we're not nearly on that level. If we're 'middle tier' then so is KA.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by bowsandtoes

We're not middle tier here. ATO/KappaSig size chapters are considered middle tier and we're not nearly on that level. If we're 'middle tier' then so is KA.

Gotcha.

Wasn't too sure how Ole Miss was set up. Knew Phi Delt/Sigma Nu was up there. Even so, upper-middle to middle at Ole Miss could compete as top, anywhere in the country.

While several of you are bashing Sigma Phi Epsilon about their Balanced Man Program, they must be doing something right. They have the largest undergraduate membership, have more chapters at the U.S. News top universities, are adding chapters at an impressive rate and probably have closed fewer chapters recently.

Quantity does NOT equal quality. One of the worst problems is they're "adding chapters at an impressie rate." Not good. I'm sure they'll be opening them at Community Colleges soon. Throw in BMP with "adding chapters at an impressive rate" and you have at least in the South, a poor image. A "Sigma Phi Everyone" image. There are chapters, like bows, which are exceptions of course.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Quantity does NOT equal quality. One of the worst problems is they're "adding chapters at an impressie rate." Not good. I'm sure they'll be opening them at Community Colleges soon. Throw in BMP with "adding chapters at an impressive rate" and you have at least in the South, a poor image. A "Sigma Phi Everyone" image. There are chapters, like bows, which are exceptions of course.

I agree. Doing away with selectivity decreases the value of the experience. Our chapters may not have hazing anymore in many cases, but membership is still something that is earned. I'll bet Sig Ep could be even bigger if they went co-ed. Someone might want to let them know.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Kappa Sigma doesn't have an umbrella program like the Balanced Man or Men of Principle that spans the entire fraternity, but we do have a rush program called "Most Wanted Man".
Because nationals has tried to implement a 6-week pledgeship, they want us to do a mid-semester rush.
No, really. It's true. Maybe if they cut down pledging to four weeks we can have three rushes each semester!

They also make their own estimates about how many pledges we should be getting each semester and send us our goals and a checklist to return to them.

Fortunately, I'm part of an established chapter with enough members and money to satisfy them, so we don't have to deal with most of it. But any new chapter or colony won't be able to start off very well with ridiculous rules like this.

I always thought that IFC and/or school had a greater say in rush matters?!?!?!? Learn something new every day here.

[oldu]

While several of you are bashing Sigma Phi Epsilon about their Balanced Man Program, they must be doing something right. They have the largest undergraduate membership, have more chapters at the U.S. News top universities, are adding chapters at an impressive rate and probably have closed fewer chapters recently. If their program is that unpopular why are they so successful? What they are doing may not be what you are seeking from a fraternity, but obviously it is attractive to a lot of young men. You may be fooling yourselves. While you are judging groups by what you think is hot today, you may very well be working for the men who went through a balanced man program tomorrow. I am not a Sig Ep but I am certainly impressed by their success.

[bowsandtoes]

Originally Posted by oldu

While several of you are bashing Sigma Phi Epsilon about their Balanced Man Program, they must be doing something right. They have the largest undergraduate membership, have more chapters at the U.S. News top universities, are adding chapters at an impressive rate and probably have closed fewer chapters recently. If their program is that unpopular why are they so successful? What they are doing may not be what you are seeking from a fraternity, but obviously it is attractive to a lot of young men. You may be fooling yourselves. While you are judging groups by what you think is hot today, you may very well be working for the men who went through a balanced man program tomorrow. I am not a Sig Ep but I am certainly impressed by their success.

If numbers equated success, then yes we'd be flying high. But the truth is they often don't, especially when many of these chapters are bidding anyone who walks through the door.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by oldu

While several of you are bashing Sigma Phi Epsilon about their Balanced Man Program, they must be doing something right. They have the largest undergraduate membership, have more chapters at the U.S. News top universities, are adding chapters at an impressive rate and probably have closed fewer chapters recently. If their program is that unpopular why are they so successful? What they are doing may not be what you are seeking from a fraternity, but obviously it is attractive to a lot of young men. You may be fooling yourselves. While you are judging groups by what you think is hot today, you may very well be working for the men who went through a balanced man program tomorrow. I am not a Sig Ep but I am certainly impressed by their success.

Eh, I mean Oklahoma SigEp rushes like 75-80 guys a year. Their numbers are huge. They are second tier their. Not nearly as good as FIJI, SAE, etc. and they don't have near the numbers ever year that Sep takes in.