New Sister with a Chapter Problem

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AGDee

As a volunteer that works with collegians in our hierarchy, I would say go to someone from your headquarters instead of your Greek Advisor. I think things like this should be handled internally. From reading things on GC, it seems like the university is very quick to close a chapter whereas an international/national org has some investment in wanting to keep chapters open if at all possible, but just changing the behaviors of those chapters (especially if there have been no injuries/deaths). They would be more likely to "clean house" and rid the chapter of those who refuse to follow a "no hazing" policy. And, usually, when something like this happens, it is a small (but powerful/intimidating/bossy) group who are leading it. Almost always, there are more women against it than for it, but they are afraid to say anything. Once a Greek Advisor has the info though, anything goes... university can pull recognition, it can end up in the campus newspaper, etc.

Honestly, if you read GC, the stories of female hazing resulting in a chapter pull initiated by the university are very very few and far between. The university derecognizes the group after the national pulls the charter. The males, though - that's another story.

Once again, without knowing the kind of hazing the OP's talking about, it's very hard to make a judgement call. They beat them till they bled? Screw HQ, screw the GA, call the police. They asked them to interview a kind of gross fraternity guy? Unpleasant, yes, but is it really worth risking your charter for?

As recent initiates, they don't know what kind of history and relationship this chapter has with their HQ. If it's a small chapter, at a school with weak Greek life, without a lot of prominent alums - i.e. not a big moneymaker - rather than clean house and send volunteers to revitalize it, they're just as likely to pull the charter and be done with it.

[beautifulnite12]

Hi all - Thank you very much for all your advice! In regards to me, I was initiated last fall in our new member class of 12. Our chapter is between 50 and 60 women including the women who initiated last semester. We just had informal recruitment and now have 8 new women pledging.

My chapter is apparently not the typical chapter - we have no alumnae advisor and our only advisor on the local level is our Greek Advisor, who believe it or not is not very pro-Greek. I spoke with my Big and several other sisters who have spoken up against hazing in the past. It didn't go well for them and all that happened was that everyone got really angry and began to fight. We think that one of the reasons for that is that no one really proposed any concrete solutions for how to make all the changes while at the same time protecting chapter traditions. There is no life-threatening hazing going on (at least not unless something goes horribly wrong) - just things that are outside of our national new member program and that are not fun - actually that just plain suck for those forced to do them. (I'd rather not publicly elaborate, if that's okay.)

My new member class and I are going to bring this up at our next chapter meeting. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to present it so that it doesn't seem like we're trying to take over and so that the older sisters might be more receptive to our ideas? We want to take a stand, but also don't want to make threats that we can't/won't follow through with.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by beautifulnite12

My new member class and I are going to bring this up at our next chapter meeting. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to present it so that it doesn't seem like we're trying to take over and so that the older sisters might be more receptive to our ideas? We want to take a stand, but also don't want to make threats that we can't/won't follow through with.

The 12 of you stand up in front of chapter and say, "Hey, there, sisters, listen: we went through the pledge process the way you wanted us to and frankly, we thought it sucked and didn't like it [or insert specific examples here] and don't want it to continue with this great new class of 8 girls or any classes in the future. We know it was done to you and you felt like you should do it to us, but we want you to know that it stops with our class. We are very proud of our letters and this chapter, but these are not traditions we're proud of or that we want to be associated with. So we will not be perpetuating these things on this new class nor will we support you in doing so. In fact, we hope to create lots of great new traditions for the pledge period and [are having a committee meeting/are planning to go to the next committee meeting] and look forward to helping these women have a phenomenal new pledge experience with our chapter. We hope as many sisters as possible will attend this meeting/will support building more sisterly pledge practices and truly live within the ideals of our founders [or insert something more touchy from your ritual or purpose here]. Thanks and hope to see you at the meeting on [day] at [time]!"

Then file back to your seats. Strength in numbers. Strength in purpose. Strength in character. Stand up to the bullies, it's what they hate the most. Treat the pledges the way you wish you'd been treated and let them know they shouldn't be made to feel "less than" by anyone that purports to call them "sister".

[AGDee]

I agree with what nittanyalum said. In addition, get the support of your Big and the other sisters who have spoken up against it before. The more of you, the better. Also, you can see if there is a way to preserve some of the tradition without the hazing. An example from years ago: One sorority did a ceremony where they each dropped a rose petal into a river. All of the members had done this. The problem? They did it in the middle of the night, rain or snow, and transported the new members while they were blindfolded. The solution? Do the ceremony, but tell the new members where they are going and do it during the daytime during good weather and don't blindfold them. They were able to turn a hazing tradition into a pretty ceremony that everybody treasured.

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

The 12 of you stand up in front of chapter and say, "Hey, there, sisters, listen: we went through the pledge process the way you wanted us to and frankly, we thought it sucked and didn't like it [or insert specific examples here] and don't want it to continue with this great new class of 8 girls or any classes in the future. We know it was done to you and you felt like you should do it to us, but we want you to know that it stops with our class. We are very proud of our letters and this chapter, but these are not traditions we're proud of or that we want to be associated with. So we will not be perpetuating these things on this new class nor will we support you in doing so. In fact, we hope to create lots of great new traditions for the pledge period and [are having a committee meeting/are planning to go to the next committee meeting] and look forward to helping these women have a phenomenal new pledge experience with our chapter. We hope as many sisters as possible will attend this meeting/will support building more sisterly pledge practices and truly live within the ideals of our founders [or insert something more touchy from your ritual or purpose here]. Thanks and hope to see you at the meeting on [day] at [time]!"

Then file back to your seats. Strength in numbers. Strength in purpose. Strength in character. Stand up to the bullies, it's what they hate the most. Treat the pledges the way you wish you'd been treated and let them know they shouldn't be made to feel "less than" by anyone that purports to call them "sister".

[SthrnZeta]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

The 12 of you stand up in front of chapter and say, "Hey, there, sisters, listen: we went through the pledge process the way you wanted us to and frankly, we thought it sucked and didn't like it [or insert specific examples here] and don't want it to continue with this great new class of 8 girls or any classes in the future. We know it was done to you and you felt like you should do it to us, but we want you to know that it stops with our class. We are very proud of our letters and this chapter, but these are not traditions we're proud of or that we want to be associated with. So we will not be perpetuating these things on this new class nor will we support you in doing so. In fact, we hope to create lots of great new traditions for the pledge period and [are having a committee meeting/are planning to go to the next committee meeting] and look forward to helping these women have a phenomenal new pledge experience with our chapter. We hope as many sisters as possible will attend this meeting/will support building more sisterly pledge practices and truly live within the ideals of our founders [or insert something more touchy from your ritual or purpose here]. Thanks and hope to see you at the meeting on [day] at [time]!"

Then file back to your seats. Strength in numbers. Strength in purpose. Strength in character. Stand up to the bullies, it's what they hate the most. Treat the pledges the way you wish you'd been treated and let them know they shouldn't be made to feel "less than" by anyone that purports to call them "sister".

Well-said and very good advice. Best of luck to the OP and I look forward to hearing how it goes...

[ComradesTrue]

Great advice above.

I would add that you do have some strength in numbers already. With the 12 in your class, plus the 8 new members this semester, by next fall there will be 20 of you. With 50-60 currently in the house, once you factor in graduating seniors, the 20 of you should easily be half of the actives by next semester.

So, definitely take the above advice, but most of all do not get discouraged if some of the current seniors put up resistance. They won't be around much longer, and the complete change that you want to see may take more than one semester. But stick together... it can happen, and by the fall pledge calss things will be even easier numbers-wise.

[FSUZeta]

plus the op said that her big sister and some others were also against the hazing. nittanylion's advice and agdee's was really good and i hope that you will give that a try. in addition, your new members can show they have backbones by not allowing themselves to be hazed.as nancy reagan says,"just say no!" if all else fails, talk to someone at your headquarters. this needs to stop-good for you and your friends for realizing this!

[LegallyBrunette]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

It's not hard to change the chapter unless it's more than 200 people.

Completely not true. It can be difficult to change ingrained practices no matter the chapter size. But, it is not impossible.

Originally Posted by beautifulnite12

We think that one of the reasons for that is that no one really proposed any concrete solutions for how to make all the changes while at the same time protecting chapter traditions. There is no life-threatening hazing going on (at least not unless something goes horribly wrong) - just things that are outside of our national new member program and that are not fun - actually that just plain suck for those forced to do them. (I'd rather not publicly elaborate, if that's okay.)

IMHO, the bolded is going to be very difficult. Finding a middle ground that incorporates negative traditions will be extremely hard. The pro-hazing sisters may see any change as watering down "their" pledge program and your national office will see any shades of hazing on top of the new member program as unnacceptable.

Originally Posted by Blondie93

Great advice above.

I would add that you do have some strength in numbers already. With the 12 in your class, plus the 8 new members this semester, by next fall there will be 20 of you. With 50-60 currently in the house, once you factor in graduating seniors, the 20 of you should easily be half of the actives by next semester.

So, definitely take the above advice, but most of all do not get discouraged if some of the current seniors put up resistance. They won't be around much longer, and the complete change that you want to see may take more than one semester. But stick together... it can happen, and by the fall pledge calss things will be even easier numbers-wise.

Co-sign. My best wishes on this. This is not an easy road you're on, but it is so worth it.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by beautifulnite12

There is no life-threatening hazing going on (at least not unless something goes horribly wrong).

This is the key thing with hazing, members think it really is "just harmless fun" until something goes wrong and then your chapter gets into REAL trouble.

You have to be firm with this and ALL of you who feel that way need to stand up against it. Any animosity you feel from the older girls is nothing compared to what will happen if something does go wrong with one o the hazing events, or your HQ discovers that there's hazing going on.

Good luck to you.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by 33girl

As recent initiates, they don't know what kind of history and relationship this chapter has with their HQ. If it's a small chapter, at a school with weak Greek life, without a lot of prominent alums - i.e. not a big moneymaker - rather than clean house and send volunteers to revitalize it, they're just as likely to pull the charter and be done with it.

This was probably the situation. I commend the OP and her NM class for doing whatever they could to stop the hazing. It's just a real shame that there was not enough support (especially disappointing about the alumnae!) for a non-hazing chapter, and that the right women can't continue the chapter the right way.

[LegallyBrunette]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

This was probably the situation. I commend the OP and her NM class for doing whatever they could to stop the hazing. It's just a real shame that there was not enough support (especially disappointing about the alumnae!) for a non-hazing chapter, and that HQ didn't care enough to remove the bad apples and allow the right women to continue the chapter the right way.

It's also possible there was more to this situation than the OP has revealed, so it seems somewhat innapropriate to chastize the HQ for making for making the decision that they did without knowing the all the facts. I'm not saying all of our HQ's are infallible and incapable of making a wrong decision, I just doubt any of us on GC have enough info to definitively say that the "HQ didn't care enough."

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by LegallyBrunette

It's also possible there was more to this situation than the OP has revealed, so it seems somewhat innapropriate to chastize the HQ for making for making the decision that they did without knowing the all the facts. I'm not saying all of our HQ's are infallible and incapable of making a wrong decision, I just doubt any of us on GC have enough info to definitively say that the "HQ didn't care enough."

What I meant by "HQ not caring enough" was referring to 33girl's post. If an identical (for the sake of argument) hazing problem occurred at two different schools, one with a big strong Greek presence, and the other with a small, weak, Greek presence, guess which one HQ will work harder to save?

[Buttonz]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

This was probably the situation. I commend the OP and her NM class for doing whatever they could to stop the hazing. It's just a real shame that there was not enough support (especially disappointing about the alumnae!) for a non-hazing chapter, and that the right women can't continue the chapter the right way.

Originally Posted by violetpretty

What I meant by "HQ not caring enough" was referring to 33girl's post. If an identical (for the sake of argument) hazing problem occurred at two different schools, one with a big strong Greek presence, and the other with a small, weak, Greek presence, guess which one HQ will work harder to save?

I can tell you for a fact that it's the big strong ones that bring in more money. It's sad, but it's true: a sorority is a business and money talks.

To the OP: I'm sorry you had to deal with this, I know what it's like to see you chapter close while you are an active. But, it's better then someone having gotten seriously hurt/died and facing legal action. I hope you can find a good alumnae association and be active in that way. With your questions, if you really don't want to contact HQ, maybe PM a member on here that is alumnae but still active and see if they can help you out? That's what I would do if I didn't want to call HQ.

[33girl]

The pledges of this chapter were not initiated, therefore they can pledge next semester or even sign a bid to another group right now if they are offered one. This is a Panhellenic rule - their pledge was broken by the act of closing the chapter.

bn12: Your situation sucks. You could either allow hazing to go on that really bothered you, or report it, and know that your chapter would probably close (I am guessing it is a chapter/school like I described). If there's an alumnae chapter near your school, you and your pledge sisters can try to get involved, especially if there are younger members in the alum chapter (some NPCs have special alum groups for younger members). As to whether any of the current sisters will be allowed to help in a possible recolonization, that depends on what the climate is 3 (actually it will probably be more like 4 or 5) years down the road.