NPHC Traditions and Practices that annoy you

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

The point is that many groups have had handsigns/symbols in and outside of the U.S. Gangs don't own that expression. You are giving those thugs way too much credit. They learned how to be organized by watching others.

Whoa, I never said they did own those expressions. What I have ascertained is that they had them before BGLOs did. But if you are going to use the term gangs then you have to include those that preceded the ones that you know of now. My point is gangs have existed for a very long time, which is why I again refer you to the movie Gangs of New York and to the Mafia.

[TotallyWicked]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

So, why didn't you just say that you grew up in Chicago? Chicago is about the only city in the midwest with a significant gang problem. Adding mileage to your agrument, in this case, doesn't add to the impact.

You edited as I was posting....

St. Louis, ok, I'll give you that - but I don't think Detroit is considered Midwest, and I don't think you can put Cleveland and Gary up there with Chicago and St. Louis.

Because I said it in an earlier post LOL Detroit is considered Midwest. I'm saying if L.A. is recognized for its gang problem, we don't use that as the sole representative for California, we are aware of places like Oakland and Compton; I feel if we recognize more Midwestern cities we can help aid in fixing the gang problem...

.....even though the mayor's solution to Chicago's problem is to push em to the suburbs....but that's an entirely different topic

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

So, why didn't you just say that you grew up in Chicago? Chicago is about the only city in the midwest with a significant gang problem. Adding mileage to your agrument, in this case, doesn't add to the impact.

You edited as I was posting....

St. Louis, ok, I'll give you that - but I don't think Detroit is considered Midwest, and I don't think you can put Cleveland and Gary up there with Chicago and St. Louis.

When I was growing up in the Lou, we did not have a gang problem--I suspect they do now. And my relatives who were in gangs all lived in Chicago.

We even have a problem here in MN, but guess what? We have our fair share of Bloods, Crips, Disciples, etc., but we also have Asian and Latino gangs. And they are no joke.

Oh and Michigan is considered midwest in a lot of designations. And Gary--whew! Per capita I bet they would compare to Chi and the Lou.

[TotallyWicked]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

When i was growing up in the Lou, we did not have a gang problem--I suspect they do now. And my relatives who were in gangs all lived in Chicago.

We even have a problem here in MN, but guess what? we have our fair share of Bloods, Crips, Disciples, etc., but we also have Asian and Latino gangs. And they are no joke.

I forgot to mention Wichita, KS which has seen a growth in gang population (mainly because of the army base), it actually is a big issue there but again we're only looking at one city as a model for the region.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by TotallyWicked

I am very much aware of gangs, I grew up in one of the largest gang areas in the Midwest...I know gangs do travel, I think it would be best to minimize the possibilities of gang fights if the venue were held somewhere not identified as a gang zone. Also, the average age that people leave gangs is 19, while former gang members join BGLO's, that shift in life (going to college, growing out of gangs, getting married, etc.), will detach them from gangs so that should not be a worry (It may be difficult for them, but for the most part this is how people leave gangs).

But my point is that mentality has invaded college campuses. I have seen it first hand. And yes they basically traded one gang for another (in their minds) when joining a BGLO, thus the continued hazing.

I should tell you that I am an old head that has experienced a lot of life, probably before you were even born. And your solutions are not that simple.

[TotallyWicked]

I never said they would be simple solutions...but it's a start...I've experienced the 'college thugs' as some call em, and know of folks who have returned to their hometown after school and yet still found themselves in the same situation as when they left.

If someone is very into the gang lifestyle and they are seeking membership, I don't really think it is wise for the organization to give them a bid unless they have a real sit down and have an understanding before they undertake their Membership Intake, if you're just taking folks without knowing really where they are coming from then we can expect this behavior to continue...I feel this would help shake off the cobwebs they (those interested) have and the misperceptions they have of GLO's as "college gangs"

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

But my point is that mentality has invaded college campuses. I have seen it first hand. And yes they basically traded one gang for another (in their minds) when joining a BGLO, thus the continued hazing.

I should tell you that I am an old head that has experienced a lot of life, probably before you were even born. And your solutions are not that simple.

Maybe this is true for certain chapters but our organizations are national and most chapters have not been inspired by gang activity...not at all. I live and was initiated in an area where there is no known gang activity and yet the hazing still goes on and no one is thinking about a gang. The reasons for why hazing continues (especially among the fraternities) is much deeper and complex than this. The book "African-American Fraternities and Sororities: The Legacy and the Vision" offers some interesting ideas and insight into the Why's of hazing in BGLO's.

And yes I know that you are a seasoned NPHC member and that you have a great deal of knowledge/wisdom to share but I also know that when it comes to the hazing thing (as it is today), the newer heads are just more in touch than a lot of the old heads are. Some of us have been through it ourselves, observed it, been involved in it, so the why's are a bit more clear to us whether we agree with it or not.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by TotallyWicked

I never said they would be simple solutions...but it's a start...I've experienced the 'college thugs' as some call em, and know of folks who have returned to their hometown after school and yet still found themselves in the same situation as when they left.

If someone is very into the gang lifestyle and they are seeking membership, I don't really think it is wise for the organization to give them a bid unless they have a real sit down and have an understanding before they undertake their Membership Intake, if you're just taking folks without knowing really where they are coming from then we can expect this behavior to continue...I feel this would help shake off the cobwebs they (those interested) have and the misperceptions they have of GLO's as "college gangs"

I think the idea of BGLO's as gangs is only a thought in areas where there is gang activity because people are sensitive to the topic. I've never heard anyone say such a thing where I live.

[DivineDiva47]

Yea...I can say the same here in the "A". Since I am the neo on the board I rarely hear comments like this about our orgs...if I do it is usually from someone who has not clue what we stand for or aware of the impact D9's have in the community they live in. I tell them what my org (DST) has done past and present and they comments are few to none..

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I think the idea of BGLO's as gangs is only a thought in areas where there is gang activity because people are sensitive to the topic. I've never heard anyone say such a thing where I live.

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

LOLZ. Unless you're talking Chicago, the Midwest is not exactly known for gangs.

Originally Posted by TotallyWicked

Yup! South Side of Chicago!

Also, that's a dangerous assumption, there are other cities in the Midwest whose gang problems get downplayed, e.g. St. Louis, Gary, IN, Detroit, Cleveland, etc. Chicago is not the only one with a severe gang problem, and hopefully people don't look at Chicago as the sole representative for gang issues.

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

So, why didn't you just say that you grew up in Chicago? Chicago is about the only city in the midwest with a significant gang problem. Adding mileage to your agrument, in this case, doesn't add to the impact.

You edited as I was posting....

St. Louis, ok, I'll give you that - but I don't think Detroit is considered Midwest, and I don't think you can put Cleveland and Gary up there with Chicago and St. Louis.

Actually Cleveland has a HUGE gang problem and is considered the Midwest.

I did a very thorough paper and presentation on gangs in college. It's not as talked about as gangs in LA, Chicago, Detroit, but it does exist and is pretty vapid.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

So are BGLO members not supposed to wear their colors and stroll at their own parties because of gang members that might be there?

That depends.

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

What members in gang infested areas should be examining is ways to make sure that gang members don't enter our parties.

In many areas, that would require a screening process that isn't available.

There are (current and former) gang members in college and in the NPHC. If the screening process failed there, why can't they be at some of these undergraduate parties (held off and on campus)?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Whoa, I never said they did own those expressions. What I have ascertained is that they had them before BGLOs did. But if you are going to use the term gangs then you have to include those that preceded the ones that you know of now. My point is gangs have existed for a very long time, which is why I again refer you to the movie Gangs of New York and to the Mafia.

Yep and who had what first isn't the real point.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

And this needs to stop, fundraiser or not. Undergrads need to keep their parties on their campuses. The liability is just too risky these days. It's so bad now that one of the schools that my alumnae chapter advises only permits the students (with school ID's) to enter the campus parties now (NPHC parties included). Everyone else must be on a guest list to get in and must arrive before 12:00a.m. Oh and security must be provided.

Universities have different rules that prompt many chapters to take their parties off campus. Some universities do not allow nonstudents on campus and do not allow parties to have a cover charge.

That sucks when almost all of our parties are fundraisers.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

And yes I know that you are a seasoned NPHC member and that you have a great deal of knowledge/wisdom to share but I also know that when it comes to the hazing thing (as it is today), the newer heads are just more in touch than a lot of the old heads are. Some of us have been through it ourselves, observed it, been involved in it, so the why's are a bit more clear to us whether we agree with it or not.

Let me clarify. My reference to gang mentality was not an absolute as the cause of hazing. In the positions I have had in Delta--nationally, regionally, collegiate advisor, hazing investigator, etc.--I fully understand hazing as it is today. And hazing today is really no different than hazing of yesteryear. In fact it is the yesteryears' going ons that allowed our groups to specifically define what is hazing in our codes of conduct.

And when MIP'd people say on public message boards that they have been through it..., all I can do is shake my head.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by DivineDiva47

Yea...I can say the same here in the "A". Since I am the neo on the board I rarely hear comments like this about our orgs...if I do it is usually from someone who has not clue what we stand for or aware of the impact D9's have in the community they live in. I tell them what my org (DST) has done past and present and they comments are few to none..

Although rarely, you do hear them. That means there are more people thinking it with whom you have not come into contact. Also I have heard it more in reference to the fraternities than the sororities.