NPHC Traditions and Practices that annoy you

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Okay, but according to your previous post, you were at an NPHC party. So are BGLO members not supposed to wear their colors and stroll at their own parties because of gang members that might be there? What members in gang infested areas should be examining is ways to make sure that gang members don't enter our parties. Having gang members at an NPHC party is not a good look and is a huge liability in regards to the safety of party goers.

And that is when the fights begin, especially if the party is open to the general public.

[TotallyWicked]

well I think folks should do some research before trying to host a party in a gang infested neighborhood...couldn't hurt in the long run to avoid any major issues....even though I acknowledge fights can break out anywhere.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by TotallyWicked

well I think folks should do some research before trying to host a party in a gang infested neighborhood...couldn't hurt in the long run to avoid any major issues....even though I acknowledge fights can break out anywhere.

I surely did not get the impressions that the parties were purposely held in gang infested neighborhoods. The thing is public parties are intended to attract just that--the public. Especially if they are a fundraiser, which many are.

Let's not be naive about gangs--they do travel. And you may not even know that you are letting mambers into a party until it is too late. And very honestly a party of any kind, anywhere is a magnet for gang face-offs. Heck here a U of MN football player was killed attending a public club by a gang member in downtown Mpls for no real reason. We have teens killed at bustops because they were mistaken for rival gang members.

This is no joke. And if anyone thinks all that needs to be done is some research on venues and how to keep them out of the parties, then they are very naive, or they do not live in an area with gang problems.

Oh and guess what? Some gang members do go to college and join BGLOs.

[TotallyWicked]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I surely did not get the impressions that the parties were purposely held in gang infested neighborhoods. The thing is public parties are intended to attract just that--the public. Especially if they are a fundraiser, which many are.

Let's not be naive about gangs--they do travel. And you may not even know that you are letting mambers into a party until it is too late. And very honestly a party of any kind, anywhere is a magnet for gang face-offs. Heck here a U of MN football player was killed attending a public club by a gang member in downtown Mpls for no real reason. We have teens killed at bustops because they were mistaken for rival gang members.

This is no joke. And if anyone thinks all that needs to be done is some research on venues and how to keep them out of the parties, then they are very naive, or they do not live in an area with gang problems.

Oh and guess what? Some gang members do go to college and join BGLOs.

I am very much aware of gangs, I grew up in one of the largest gang areas in the Midwest...I know gangs do travel, I think it would be best to minimize the possibilities of gang fights if the venue were held somewhere not identified as a gang zone. Also, the average age that people leave gangs is 19, while former gang members join BGLO's, that shift in life (going to college, growing out of gangs, getting married, etc.), will detach them from gangs so that should not be a worry (It may be difficult for them, but for the most part this is how people leave gangs).

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by TotallyWicked

I grew up in one of the largest gang areas in the Midwest.

LOLZ. Unless you're talking Chicago, the Midwest is not exactly known for gangs.

[TotallyWicked]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

LOLZ. Unless you're talking Chicago, the Midwest is not exactly known for gangs.

Yup! South Side of Chicago!

Also, that's a dangerous assumption, there are other cities in the Midwest whose gang problems get downplayed, e.g. St. Louis, Gary, IN, Detroit, Cleveland, etc. Chicago is not the only one with a severe gang problem, and hopefully people don't look at Chicago as the sole representative for gang issues.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by TotallyWicked

Yup! South Side of Chicago!

So, why didn't you just say that you grew up in Chicago? Chicago is about the only city in the midwest with a significant gang problem. Adding mileage to your agrument, in this case, doesn't add to the impact.

You edited as I was posting....

St. Louis, ok, I'll give you that - but I don't think Detroit is considered Midwest, and I don't think you can put Cleveland and Gary up there with Chicago and St. Louis.

[Phrozen1ne]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

LOLZ. Unless you're talking Chicago, the Midwest is not exactly known for gangs.

...............Really, I beg to differ.

[Phrozen1ne]

When, at stepshows, NPHC orgs give info about their org before they go on and STUMBLE AND MESS UP info like founders and the year founded. Plus reading it off a piece of paper. Then they try to chalk it up to being nervous. If you were that nervous maybe should let someone else do it.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by TotallyWicked

I am very much aware of gangs, I grew up in one of the largest gang areas in the Midwest...I know gangs do travel, I think it would be best to minimize the possibilities of gang fights if the venue were held somewhere not identified as a gang zone. Also, the average age that people leave gangs is 19, while former gang members join BGLO's, that shift in life (going to college, growing out of gangs, getting married, etc.), will detach them from gangs so that should not be a worry (It may be difficult for them, but for the most part this is how people leave gangs).

But my point is that mentality has invaded college campuses. I have seen it first hand. And yes they basically traded one gang for another (in their minds) when joining a BGLO, thus the continued hazing.

I should tell you that I am an old head that has experienced a lot of life, probably before you were even born. And your solutions are not that simple.

[TotallyWicked]

I never said they would be simple solutions...but it's a start...I've experienced the 'college thugs' as some call em, and know of folks who have returned to their hometown after school and yet still found themselves in the same situation as when they left.

If someone is very into the gang lifestyle and they are seeking membership, I don't really think it is wise for the organization to give them a bid unless they have a real sit down and have an understanding before they undertake their Membership Intake, if you're just taking folks without knowing really where they are coming from then we can expect this behavior to continue...I feel this would help shake off the cobwebs they (those interested) have and the misperceptions they have of GLO's as "college gangs"

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by TotallyWicked

I never said they would be simple solutions...but it's a start...I've experienced the 'college thugs' as some call em, and know of folks who have returned to their hometown after school and yet still found themselves in the same situation as when they left.

If someone is very into the gang lifestyle and they are seeking membership, I don't really think it is wise for the organization to give them a bid unless they have a real sit down and have an understanding before they undertake their Membership Intake, if you're just taking folks without knowing really where they are coming from then we can expect this behavior to continue...I feel this would help shake off the cobwebs they (those interested) have and the misperceptions they have of GLO's as "college gangs"

I think the idea of BGLO's as gangs is only a thought in areas where there is gang activity because people are sensitive to the topic. I've never heard anyone say such a thing where I live.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

But my point is that mentality has invaded college campuses. I have seen it first hand. And yes they basically traded one gang for another (in their minds) when joining a BGLO, thus the continued hazing.

I should tell you that I am an old head that has experienced a lot of life, probably before you were even born. And your solutions are not that simple.

Maybe this is true for certain chapters but our organizations are national and most chapters have not been inspired by gang activity...not at all. I live and was initiated in an area where there is no known gang activity and yet the hazing still goes on and no one is thinking about a gang. The reasons for why hazing continues (especially among the fraternities) is much deeper and complex than this. The book "African-American Fraternities and Sororities: The Legacy and the Vision" offers some interesting ideas and insight into the Why's of hazing in BGLO's.

And yes I know that you are a seasoned NPHC member and that you have a great deal of knowledge/wisdom to share but I also know that when it comes to the hazing thing (as it is today), the newer heads are just more in touch than a lot of the old heads are. Some of us have been through it ourselves, observed it, been involved in it, so the why's are a bit more clear to us whether we agree with it or not.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

And yes I know that you are a seasoned NPHC member and that you have a great deal of knowledge/wisdom to share but I also know that when it comes to the hazing thing (as it is today), the newer heads are just more in touch than a lot of the old heads are. Some of us have been through it ourselves, observed it, been involved in it, so the why's are a bit more clear to us whether we agree with it or not.

Let me clarify. My reference to gang mentality was not an absolute as the cause of hazing. In the positions I have had in Delta--nationally, regionally, collegiate advisor, hazing investigator, etc.--I fully understand hazing as it is today. And hazing today is really no different than hazing of yesteryear. In fact it is the yesteryears' going ons that allowed our groups to specifically define what is hazing in our codes of conduct.

And when MIP'd people say on public message boards that they have been through it..., all I can do is shake my head.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

And that is when the fights begin, especially if the party is open to the general public.

And this needs to stop, fundraiser or not. Undergrads need to keep their parties on their campuses. The liability is just too risky these days. It's so bad now that one of the schools that my alumnae chapter advises only permits the students (with school ID's) to enter the campus parties now (NPHC parties included). Everyone else must be on a guest list to get in and must arrive before 12:00a.m. Oh and security must be provided.