right/wrong

[jessiwannabe]

Well I prove myself in moral ways, life ways ,and in public ways. The moral ways I try not to disrespect anyone no matter how much they might deserve it. I also prove myself by living above the norm that is set for our race and especially by being a female we have to work twice as hard. We are not supposed to be educated and I think I prove that everyday by going to class and making the best grade in class. I also talk to kids that are in high school because that is where you are most influenced by other people. I mainly talk about the stress that you could be put under by parents because my sister shot herself because she never thought she was good enough. I tell them never under any condition let someone tell you you're not good enough, because I know how that feels cause it hit close to home. I prove myself to be uplifting to others. My greatest joy is to see someone take my words and use them well and I see them later on and they are better off. I have a big heart for community change and willing to be a part of that change and say twenty years form now I've made a difference. Right now I am working on the mayor campaign cold calling and posting signs up to vote for Larry Langford!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hahahhaha

[DeltAlum]

We can all agree that there is no common definition of hazing, and we can all agree that some of the things that are called hazing are dumb. OK, stupid.

It just doesn't matter unless or until somebody can change that.

We break the rules, they file suits or arrest us or take our charters away.

Why play that game?

We don't hold the power here. We're nowhere close to a majority.

Breaking the law is not an option for us in the long term.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

We can all agree that there is no common definition of hazing, and we can all agree that some of the things that are called hazing are dumb. OK, stupid.

It just doesn't matter unless or until somebody can change that.

But it does matter in a thread like this, because if we just jump into blanket statements like "hazing is illegal" or "[some] hazing is okay" without establishing, at least for the purposes of this discussion what is meant by "hazing," some people are talking about apples, some are talking about oranges and some are talking about cumquats.

Can we agree that some of the things that are called hazing by some aren't hazing under any reasonable definition? Can we agree that some of the things called hazing would qualify as hazing under a GLO or university policy but not under the law? Because that is part of real the issue here, the real impediment to meaningful and effective conversation. Even your earlier post seemed to implicitly recognize this, when you said "I went through rush and pledging before this stuff was against the law, and frankly I doubt that you have any idea of what went on in that period." I took this as you basically saying that "kids today" have no idea what hazing really is -- in other words, some of what they are calling "hazing" isn't "real hazing."

Take the four examples that Mac offered as (my words) "acceptable hazing":

- having a study hall

- having a test of fraternity knowledge

- having pledges clean the fraternity house

- making pledges have a dress code

Do you consider these examples hazing? I certainly don't see any lawsuits in the offing from these, although depending on the circumstances, some of them might constitute hazing under the policies of some groups. (On the other hand, one these examples (the test) is mandated in my Fraternity.)

Breaking the law is not an option for us in the long term.

As I already pointed out, where I live, none of the things that Mac suggested (or, IIRC, that the OP suggested) would constitute "hazing" under the law because none of them would involve or risk physical injury. So none of them would involve "breaking the law," meaning that the simple statement "Hazing is illegal" begs the question "what do you mean by 'hazing.'"

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by jessiwannabe

Well I prove myself in moral ways, life ways ,and in public ways. The moral ways I try not to disrespect anyone no matter how much they might deserve it. I also prove myself by living above the norm that is set for our race and especially by being a female we have to work twice as hard. We are not supposed to be educated and I think I prove that everyday by going to class and making the best grade in class. I also talk to kids that are in high school because that is where you are most influenced by other people. I mainly talk about the stress that you could be put under by parents because my sister shot herself because she never thought she was good enough. I tell them never under any condition let someone tell you you're not good enough, because I know how that feels cause it hit close to home. I prove myself to be uplifting to others. My greatest joy is to see someone take my words and use them well and I see them later on and they are better off. I have a big heart for community change and willing to be a part of that change and say twenty years form now I've made a difference. Right now I am working on the mayor campaign cold calling and posting signs up to vote for Larry Langford!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hahahhaha

I think I know what you're trying to say here about stereotypes and cultural issues but you're not expressing yourself well at ALL. How could someone take your words and use them to make themselves better off if this is how you express yourself?

[1908Revelations]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I think I know what you're trying to say here about stereotypes and cultural issues but you're not expressing yourself well at ALL. How could someone take your words and use them to make themselves better off if this is how you express yourself?

I understand what you are sayling Drolefille. Plus the "we are not supposed to be educated" thing she speaks of is just an excuse to me. It is 2007 not 1843, in my opinion 'we' should be educated point blank.