right/wrong

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by jessiwannabe

Yes we should be educated be but that's not what's expected of us.

Says who? I expect all students in my classes, regardless of race, to come to class prepared, contribute to class discussion, etc. Don't blanketly state that any one group of people, for whatever reason, is not expected to be educated. Some people may perceive that they aren't expected to be educated, but that doesn't mean the expectation isn't there.

...but some pepole still believe that we should be separated and don't like us.

So what? Some people believe that all blonds are dumb sluts. Some people believe that all Muslims are terrorists. Some people believe that there is no God. Some people believe that there is a God. It doesn't make a hill of beans difference what some people believe; some people are wrong. What do you believe? That's what matters.

What's this thread about, anyway?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

What's this thread about, anyway?

Jessi made a thread
Well, I don't think it's a good thread at all

[Kevin]

MC:

Some state statutes declare any situation created which results in "mental discomfort" to be punishable as a felony!

This is just a case of out-of-control prosecutorial discretion waiting to happen.


Take the Oklahoma statute:

F. For purposes of this section:
1. "Hazing" means an activity which recklessly or intentionally endangers the mental health or physical health or safety of a student for the purpose of initiation or admission into or affiliation with any organization operating subject to the sanction of the public or private school or of any institution of higher education in this state;
2. "Endanger the physical health" shall include but not be limited to any brutality of a physical nature, such as whipping, beating, branding, forced calisthenics, exposure to the elements, forced consumption of any food, alcoholic beverage as defined in Section 506 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, low-point beer as defined in Section 163.2 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, drug, controlled dangerous substance, or other substance, or any other forced physical activity which could adversely affect the physical health or safety of the individual; and
3. "Endanger the mental health" shall include any activity, except those activities authorized by law, which would subject the individual to extreme mental stress, such as prolonged sleep deprivation, forced prolonged exclusion from social contact, forced conduct which could result in extreme embarrassment, or any other forced activity which could adversely affect the mental health or dignity of the individual.
(emphasis added)

Under such a definition, yes, I suppose you could make a case that being forced to clean the bathroom of the fraternity house could "adversely affect" the dignity of a pledge.

That's really scary stuff.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

MC:

Some state statutes declare any situation created which results in "mental discomfort" to be punishable as a felony!

This is just a case of out-of-control prosecutorial discretion waiting to happen. . . .

That's really scary stuff.

Agreed! I sense a vagueness and overbreadth challenge is someone's future.

This just points up the importance of a common definition for hazing, even if it's just a common definition for the purposes of this thread.

It also shows the problems with making the blanket statement that "hazing is illegal." It is indeed, but how your state defines hazing and how my state defines hazing is quite, quite different. Without a common, workin definition, simply saying "hazing is illegal" is a pretty meaningless statement.

[LPIDelta]

AFA is establishing/has established a task forceor hosting a symposium to address the issue of multiple definitions of hazing. I believe they are going to attempt a common understanding among all the various organizations (NPC, NPHC, NIC etc.).

The problem is--AFA's definition is still going to be different from FIPG, this state will be different from that state, (it could go on and on).

For me, I am comfortable citing FIPG as an authority, and that is the definition I use most often. But that also gets into issues of interpretation...

Anyway...