advice needed

[ZTA72]

I know nothing about COB, but since you asked for advice, I will put forward the same advice that I gave my daughters when they went through rush.

" When you are talking about being greek, only speak positively, don't make any negative comments to ANYONE about a particular group, you never know who is listening or who is related to who(m) ".

We are a military family and have lived in many different environments.

My daughters apparently heeded this advice and it has served them well.
Please feel free to PM me with any questions.

ZTA72

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

By what authority? I agree that the college PANHELLENIC (meaning the actives and their chapters) is bound by those rules, since the constituent GLOs have all agreed to follow the rules and could pull the charters of the chapters if they had wet rush. But if I'm the dean of students at the University of Michigan, and I decide to hire Jane Doe to be the Greek Advisor, then Jane Doe works for me and for the State of Michigan. Where would NPC get the power to control what Jane says? She has never agreed to follow their rules or be under their jurisdiction.

NPC has authority only to the extent that its constituent members agree in advance to cooperate and follow its rules. It has no power to control what outside players do. Note, for example, that a few years ago, the president of Princeton sent a letter to the whole freshman class saying that GLOs are bad and detrimental and urging students not to join them. I'm willing to bet that this went against some NPC policy. But NPC does not get to control what Princeton employees tell Princeton students about sorority recruitment.

You are correct. If the Greek Life office posted that recs are needed, the NPC could get pissed, but they couldn't compel them to change anything.

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I think what people should keep in mind about recs and the SEC is that going to a system that downplayed them would probably actually be worse for the unknown or out-of-state girls. At least now there's a chance that a member from the girl's hometown can get the chapter to take a look at her. Without recs, it would be closer to exclusively based on who the girls in the chapter already knew personally before recruitment, and that would leave even more PNMs out in the cold (or heat if we consider the actual recruitment environment).

This is true. Someone said earlier in this thread that women should be grown-up enough to do their research. I spoke to the sorority women I knew (mom, her friends, a teacher) before rushing, and they NEVER mentioned recs, because they all rushed at schools where they were not needed. Even if I had gone off to an SEC school, it would not occur to me to go research something online when I had information from personal contacts.

[barbino]

Originally Posted by MaggieXi

I do not think your "stupid", but I am not understanding why your posts seem to be so hostile towards the members of this community. We have been trying to give you helpful information.

Here are some ideas you may want to pass along: 1. Get good grades and keep them up. A strong GPA is helpful. Most of the sororities have a higher GPA than the non-greek population at most schools. 2. Get to know actives in all the chapters. 3. Get involved in other organizations (SGA, Habitat, intramurals, etc.) 4. Get Recs to all the chapters written by people who have met your daughter. 5. Do not bash, be sarcastic, condescending, etc. towards the greek community. Some greek organizations have something called a "No Rec". While not used unless absolutely necessary, it does happen.

I don't see it as this mom being hostile toward GC members (and I've certainly read enough hostility toward and between members on this board). I see this mom as truly trying to assist her daughter in achieving a worthwhile goal: membership in a GLO. Sometimes it's hard to remember what it really was that made us want to join. It can also be hard to remember how tough recruitment was simply because it probably "worked" for most of us who have gone Greek. I remember asking my best friend who went Alpha Phi at Ohio State a year before I went away to college, "You mean that there are girls who go all the way through, decide that this is what they really want, and then - they don't get chosen, they can't be in a house?" I was mortified. For all of us who got our first choice, there are others (like my best friend) who got their second, or their third choice. And then there are others, like her daughter, who fall between the cracks and end up with no sorority home at all.

But one thing that I have learned from GC regarding recruitment is that a PNM can try, and try again. Carnation's recruitment thread is a great example. This mom needs to keep supporting her daughter the way she is now, and her daughter should not lose heart and quit trying to pledge the GLO that she so longs for. I guess that I'm an optomist: where there is a will, there is a way. You have only to find it.

[sadiemae]

I am new to this forum. Please excuse me if I am breaking etiquette rules in joining this thread. I will not continue if I am intruding. Let me know.

My daughter's (I'll call her Susie) AU rush experience was also disappointing. I was Greek at a much smaller school and hope some of you can give me insight into where Susie's rush took a wrong turn.

She has all the bells and whistles (a complete package someone called her.) She had no set expectations but was looking for a chapter with values that matched her high aspirations. Susie (and I) worked diligently to secure recommendations and had at least two recs for every sorority except one on AU campus. And she was a legacy to one of the big (I'm told) chapters.

Susie also had acquaintances in a few chapters. Upon their invitations, she sent photos to about six of them who said they would make "posters" introducing Susie to their chapter members

She was advised to immediately drop her legacy sorority. But she liked them and felt she was warmly received. She kept them for second round, was dropped by one of her other favorites, but continued to second round with 12 invitations.

Susie, who had gone into rush with apprehension, started to enjoy the process. But when she did not receive invitations to third round parties from any of her top six choices including her legacy, she decided to withdraw. Susie reasoned she would not be satisfied with a second choice, and that staying in rush could prevent another PNM who really wanted one from getting a bid.

Susie is at peace with her outcome and feels rush was worthwhile for the friends she made. And if she is happy, I am happy. However, I can't stop wondering what went wrong?

Was it a mistake to send in that legacy form? Did it stop other sororities from seriously considering Susie? Was it a mistake for me to send recs for other girls to my sorority when my daughter was rushing at the same time? (None of them pledged my sorority)

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

By what authority? I agree that the college PANHELLENIC (meaning the actives and their chapters) is bound by those rules, since the constituent GLOs have all agreed to follow the rules and could pull the charters of the chapters if they had wet rush. But if I'm the dean of students at the University of Michigan, and I decide to hire Jane Doe to be the Greek Advisor, then Jane Doe works for me and for the State of Michigan. Where would NPC get the power to control what Jane says? She has never agreed to follow their rules or be under their jurisdiction.

NPC has authority only to the extent that its constituent members agree in advance to cooperate and follow its rules. It has no power to control what outside players do. Note, for example, that a few years ago, the president of Princeton sent a letter to the whole freshman class saying that GLOs are bad and detrimental and urging students not to join them. I'm willing to bet that this went against some NPC policy. But NPC does not get to control what Princeton employees tell Princeton students about sorority recruitment.

The Princeton case is apples and oranges. The Greek life office did NOT send out those letters, since there ISN'T a Greek life office at Princeton. None of the GLOs are recognized by the school (although they are recognized by their national headquarters). The school administration sent the letter. They're perfectly within their rights to do that (even if it is stupid).

And if Auburn or Alabama's president wants to send out a letter to the whole freshman class saying they need to get recs and send them in or they won't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting into a sorority, then that's their prerogative. The fact is, though, I really doubt the president or even student affairs director (or whatever their title is) of Auburn or Bama cares.

Plus, the Greek life director at the above named schools is most likely an NPC member herself. Therefore, she should be following NPC rules.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by sadiemae

...My daughter's (I'll call her Susie) AU rush experience was also disappointing. I was Greek at a much smaller school and hope some of you can give me insight into where Susie's rush took a wrong turn...

You did nothing wrong. You did everything right. Why did it happen? There will never be an answer for that...my daughter rushed 6 years ago and was dropped, and I still wonder why (she later pledged COB). You mentioned you went to a smaller school...it's hard to understand just how BIG a rush with 1,200 girls is. It is so big that groups have to cut girls for no reason at all, just to get to the number they're allowed. And sometimes there is no reason for cutting somebody. It's frustrating. Legacy? I don't think it really matters if she did or did not put it down. Most groups know that the big ones can't take all their legacies...it's a consideration, but a small one.
The only thing that I think she should have done differently is to return to the houses she was invited to. Opinions can change from one party to another. Rushees have to realize that when they limit themselves to just a few groups, the numbers are simply stacked against them. She had invitations...plenty of girls got none, or only 1 or 2. She should have gone. BUT...we moms hurt worse than our daughters! She will make plenty more friends at Auburn and who knows? She may still COB a great chapter. If not, she will still probably have a very successful college career. Auburn's a very friendly, inclusive campus, and it's possible to be totally happy there without being Greek.

[sadiemae]

Thanks for your encouragement. I know in my head that you are very right. My heart is just not there yet.

From the beginning, I did encourage Susie to finish out the process. She withdrew before talking with me. She did say her counselor, whom she liked very much, agreed that withdrawing was the thing to do if Susie truly felt the way she said she did.

How does the fact that Susie withdrew from rush effect her opportunities to pledge a later time?

[Low C Sharp]

The Greek life office did NOT send out those letters, since there ISN'T a Greek life office at Princeton.

But so what? What magical change happens when a university employee is labeled "Greek life advisor" instead of "dean of students" or "president"? How does s/he become bound by NPC rules?

Plus, the Greek life director at the above named schools is most likely an NPC member herself. Therefore, she should be following NPC rules.

Even if she is an NPC member (the director is just as likely to be an IFC or NPHC member), most sorority alumnae wisely put loyalty to their employer above loyalty to the NPC. The "above named schools" are public schools, and the Greek Life director is a state employee with a duty to serve the taxpayers of the state, who pay her to look after the interests of their college-age kids. She has no business prioritizing the NPC's directives above telling the truth to those kids.

And on a practical level, what is NPC going to do besides get PO'd? Sure, the constituent GLOs would pull charters if houses had wet rush. But the advisor's sorority would never in a million years kick her out of alumna status for telling PNMs the truth that they need to seek recs on their own. Nor would it de-recognize the college panhellenic over something the local Greek advisor said...because, as stated above, that person is not under Panhellenic control.
________
ROLL A JOINT

[andrea981]

Originally Posted by OSU Maman

I think people need to realize that not all of us have been surrounded by or exposed to Greek life.

If I saw something that said recs were "not necessary, " then I would believe that statement (after finding out what a rec was-lol). It should not be assumed that people would know that even though stated that it's not necessary, you should get one anyway.

I am very sorry for your daughter, and hope that things work out for her some way.

My daughter will be attending Ohio State University. Recruitment doesn't take place until after Christmas. I understand that (or at least I thought I did) recs are not needed like they are at an SEC school. If someone has knowledge to the contrary, please let me know. Or should my daughter ask this question when she has her Welcome Week activities (where they will meet some of the people from Greek life)?

Thanks!

The fact that recruitment is delayed gives your daughter a better opportunity to figure out how common recs are. At my school, a very small one, having a rec was an exception to the rule. Just have your daughter casually ask whether most PNMs have recs or not from a sorority junior or senior (someone who has seen a couple recruitment seasons).

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

But the advisor's sorority would never in a million years kick her out of alumna status for telling PNMs the truth that they need to seek recs on their own.

Really? You know this how?

I really doubt the Greek advisor at someplace like Bama or Auburn is going to rock the Panhellenic boat in any way unless it comes from the top down - i.e. if the President of the university says "you must tell freshmen they need recs." And like I said before...I really don't think the people in those positions (Pres, etc) care or will do anything unless they get angry phone calls from parents.

Like I said, I don't know why that resolution was initially passed. It could have been something like chapters at smaller schools not being able to pledge girls because the girls didn't know anyone Greek who could send in a rec for them. I think there's one chapter at my school that does state anyone who joins must have a rec letter, and if they waited for the girls to find someone who was an alum and get the letter to them, the girls would be pledges for forever or never get initiated. If other schools have twisted it around, it's really not NPC's fault.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by OSU Maman

My daughter will be attending Ohio State University. Recruitment doesn't take place until after Christmas. I understand that (or at least I thought I did) recs are not needed like they are at an SEC school. If someone has knowledge to the contrary, please let me know. Or should my daughter ask this question when she has her Welcome Week activities (where they will meet some of the people from Greek life)?

Thanks!

You don't need recs at OSU. Alot of the girls I know who rushed there didn't have any and they all got bids. If you would like to secure some, I'm sure they'd be good to have (she'd stand out from some of the other PNMs) ,but they're not needed.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by sadiemae

Thanks for your encouragement. I know in my head that you are very right. My heart is just not there yet.
I certainly understand!
From the beginning, I did encourage Susie to finish out the process. She withdrew before talking with me. She did say her counselor, whom she liked very much, agreed that withdrawing was the thing to do if Susie truly felt the way she said she did.
The counselor was wrong. Sounds like she was either poorly trained or had a lot going on.
How does the fact that Susie withdrew from rush effect her opportunities to pledge a later time?

If she waits until next fall, being an upperclassmen will affect her chances. Some simply won't consider upperclassmen, or only ones with ties already in place. Unless things change, Auburn, unlike Alabama, does not have a "free upperclassmen quota." Many of the groups do NOT automatically discount sophomores and above, but the ones they pledge often have friends inside the groups.
Hey, groups DO lose a few new members after Bid Day, and often discreetly replaces them with COB girls. It's usually somebody they know.

[sadiemae]

Please don't think poorly of Susie's counselor. There is a very good chance of misunderstanding between Susie and the counselor and/or Susie and me.

So, the fact that Susie withdrew from rush does not eliminate her from open bidding? I do realize that she has to sign up for open bidding, if she is interested.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally Posted by AUThetaChi

One thing to remember is that GPhiB started its Auburn chapter sometime around 1995 so it is still new, relatively speaking. I understand that they are doing just fine now. DG is even newer, having returned a few years ago after a 30-year hiatus. They seem to be doing well too.

Not quite correct.

Gamma Phi Chapter of Gamma Phi Beta was founded at Auburn University in 1968.

[FSUZeta]

i believe that bama does have a separate "junior" quota(or free juniors if you will) but auburn does not.


susie can participate in informal(cob-continous open bidding)recruitment-she does need to get her name on the list. she should contact the greek life office.