Playas till the day we die...

[OneTimeSBX]

i have no problem with the "wife submissive to her husband" rule. ooh, see that? it said WIFE! that, my friend, is where the line is. i am generally submissive as a fiancee, but not to the level i will be after we say "i do"...

my problem with the "our women" slant a few of you mentioned, is that i hear it too often. it is the answer a lot of times to the "why are you dating outside your race?" question. i dont mind interracial dating at all, mind you, but think its unfair to black women when we are stereotyped in that way. after all the oppression we, as a people, went thru together, you would think you would want a strong black woman. there are so many of "our women" who are without men and raising children for various reasons. you should support that strength in us!

we, in turn, AS WOMEN need to learn that skill of letting you all do your thing. not specifically as black women. oh, and uh, dont tell me every man is MAN ENOUGH to lead a household...hmm?

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by 357Nupe

Now I know my next statement is going to start something but here goes, It is not a woman's place(role) to tell a men she is ready to be married, now a woman can leave if she feels the relationship is going nowhere but a man will ask when he knows the relationship is ready for that step. HIM.

If you look at how marriage was setup women were not put in the finding role but in the accepting role.

[b]In conclusion when men and women understand their roles in relationships the outcome is a lot clearer and easier to obtain. We as men have forgotten our place and ladies you have decided since we can't figure it out you will take over, and sorry to say it does not work. [b]

Roles according to who? The religious right? If this works for you and your wife cool..

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

Wow. A woman that wants a man to take the lead? Women usually jump down my throat for voicing my opinion on this. I think that's why the divorce rate is so high because men won't take the lead. That's Biblical. It's the man's job to take care of his wife. It's not her job to take care of him. Women aren't designed to take on the load. Women get frustrated and stressed when she feels she has to take on the load. I agree with you all the way. In a marriage a woman has the option if she wants to work or not. I know this sounds crazy but if she doesn't want to work, then the joker she's with needs to do what he's gotta do to make ends meet. Now, of course if she does want to work then that's always a blessing, but she doesn't have to. That's all I've ever seen my dad do, was lead the family. Sons are going to do what they see their fathers do. I was raised to lead. The problem is finding a woman who wants to be led. Today's women say "I can take care of myself. I don't need a man to take care of me." That's part of the problem. Any man that lets his woman lead him, in my book is one sorry poor excuse for a man.

The Bible says wives submit yourselves unto your own husbands. It also says submit yourselves to one another. That doesn't mean for the man to submit to her lead, it means he is to submit to her needs, and she will submit to his lead.

See, this is where I have a problem. I don’t let a book run my life. Say what you want but I know exactly why I'm single and this is the root. I'm too much of an individualist esp. when it comes to religion. I got into it yesterday on my date about this very topic. Men and women can lead each other equally but because of society rules (Christian), women feel like they have to be subservient, on all levels. Sorry, I can’t do that.

As far as Im concerned, we MUST walk side by side.

[OneTimeSBX]

Originally Posted by NinjaPoodle

Roles according to who? The religious right? If this works for you and your wife cool..




See, this is where I have a problem. I don’t let a book run my life. Say what you want but I know exactly why I'm single and this is the root. I'm too much of an individualist esp. when it comes to religion. I got into it yesterday on my date about this very topic. Men and women can lead each other equally but because of society rules (Christian), women feel like they have to be subservient, on all levels. Sorry, I can’t do that.

As far as Im concerned, we MUST walk side by side.

you know what, i think the problem is exactly how the family should be led by the man. my father is head of the household. did he make all the decisions by himself? no. my mother has input on every major decision. if he disagrees, nothing is done until they resolve it. that sounds 50/50, and looks that way from the outside. but we all know deep down that daddy wears the pants. its nothing that we see or hear. we just know it. the one thing we do have proof of, is him including her in decisions. i dont think hes ever made one without her, and thats the way it should be. hes more like, the speaker of the house lol

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by OneTimeSBX

you know what, i think the problem is exactly how the family should be led by the man. my father is head of the household. did he make all the decisions by himself? no. my mother has input on every major decision. if he disagrees, nothing is done until they resolve it. that sounds 50/50, and looks that way from the outside. but we all know deep down that daddy wears the pants. its nothing that we see or hear. we just know it. the one thing we do have proof of, is him including her in decisions. i dont think hes ever made one without her, and thats the way it should be. hes more like, the speaker of the house lol

That worked for them however my parents did everything equally so in essence they were both head of the household. They were married for 62 years and seperated by his death. My issue is that men expect women to be strong yet subservient and LET them be in charge. Why cant both be in charge? I can not and will not let someone, esp. a man tell me how, what, when, why, where... and expect me to just go along. That's me. I will hurt a mans EGO (because that's what it really about) in a second and not think twice if he tries to "put me in my place". I've done it before and have NO problems doing it agin. My life is by MY terms and no one elses.

[blklikeme]

AND IF I HAD TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN I WOULD BE RIGHT HERE W? YOU

Originally Posted by mccoyred

Marriage is hard work and many of us are scared of hard work! We can get degrees and start companies and serve the community but when it comes to making yourself vulnerable to another, we get scared and run for the hills. I have been married for almost 14 years and I can say that it has not been easy. We have had our ups and downs with more good times than bad. We intend to work at this thing and enjoy it until death do us part.


I also think about what I have seen single sisters (divorced, never been married or widowed but looking again) go through and I would not want to voluntarily be single again....babymama/babydaddy drama, STDs/AIDS, online dating, bars/clubs, singles ministries, etc.!

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

Nupe that's a good story. That simply has made you a stronger man though.

Man, you hit it on the nose. Women do not like to be led, especially our own. My X was a trip. She did her own thing, and I did mine, because I damn sure was not going to follow her. Wasn't raised to follow a woman. My father always told me there's nothing wrong with listening to your wife/woman, you just have to know when to listen to her. A man that lets his wife/woman lead, will lead that joker right into the gutter, and then blame it on him and the killer thing about it is she would be right. It would be his own fault. Why? Because God DID NOT give the woman the dominion, nor did he give her direction. That was Adams responsibility. Period. Also you can't lead a woman who refuses to be led. I know why women have a hard time submitting, but that goes back to Genesis. I'll explain later.

So why couldnt you walk by her side WITH her? Would it have killed you?

[OneTimeSBX]

Originally Posted by NinjaPoodle

That worked for them however my parents did everything equally so in essence they were both head of the household. They were married for 62 years and seperated by his death. My issue is that men expect women to be strong yet subservient and LET them be in charge. Why cant both be in charge? I can not and will not let someone, esp. a man tell me how, what, when, why, where... and expect me to just go along. That's me. I will hurt a mans EGO (because that's what it really about) in a second and not think twice if he tries to "put me in my place". I've done it before and have NO problems doing it agin. My life is by MY terms and no one elses.

i think my mom is just the type of person who was happy in that situation. now me?? or either of my two sisters?? hell naw. it is an equal walk. i dont do anything major without him, and vice versa.

someone, i think Prettyboy, said that women arent designed to "take on the load"...what the hell? not only are we designed to do it, there are just as many of us actually doing it as there are men! like i said earlier, and i will say it again...women need to know how to run a household. if she is willing to sit back and let her man make the decisions, she may be in for a world of disappointment.

"honey, pack the house up, we're moving to Canada because i said so!" it seems funny, but i have a girlfriend who has 5 children, living 250 miles away from home while her husband aka head of household, is off working at a job he could have easily gotten here where we live. she is alone, no car, no job, no spending money, no cable, no neighbors...see where i'm going with this? she was "submissive" because thats what her mother told her she should be. she loves her family but she's miserable...what about her needs? being head of household should first and foremost incorporate the other persons wants and needs and feelings.

too many men feel that "submissive" equals "i do what i want, when i want and you cant do anything about it".

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by OneTimeSBX

too many men feel that "submissive" equals "i do what i want, when i want and you cant do anything about it".

And then get all offended when you call them on it. Hypocritical and a blown up ego.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by NinjaPoodle

So why couldnt you walk by her side WITH her? Would it have killed you?

I didn't say she had to walk behind me, but I will be the head and she is to submit to my lead. Period. If you don't agree with it, that's cool. Good luck in your future relationships.

[OneTimeSBX]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

I didn't say she had to walk behind me, but I will be the head and she is to submit to my lead. Period. If you don't agree with it, that's cool. Good luck in your future relationships.

if shes not behind you, but you are in the lead...please explain!

oh and uhh, do you explain that exactly how you put it when you enter relationships? even my most religious, old fashioned girlfriends would be a bit surprised. it comes off a bit...pushy?

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by OneTimeSBX

i think my mom is just the type of person who was happy in that situation. now me?? or either of my two sisters?? hell naw. it is an equal walk. i dont do anything major without him, and vice versa.

someone, i think Prettyboy, said that women arent designed to "take on the load"...what the hell? not only are we designed to do it, there are just as many of us actually doing it as there are men! like i said earlier, and i will say it again...women need to know how to run a household. if she is willing to sit back and let her man make the decisions, she may be in for a world of disappointment.

"honey, pack the house up, we're moving to Canada because i said so!" it seems funny, but i have a girlfriend who has 5 children, living 250 miles away from home while her husband aka head of household, is off working at a job he could have easily gotten here where we live. she is alone, no car, no job, no spending money, no cable, no neighbors...see where i'm going with this? she was "submissive" because thats what her mother told her she should be. she loves her family but she's miserable...what about her needs? being head of household should first and foremost incorporate the other persons wants and needs and feelings.

too many men feel that "submissive" equals "i do what i want, when i want and you cant do anything about it".

Leading doesn't mean ruling with an iron fist. Submitting doesn't mean she's his servant. They can walk side by side, but again walking side by side means for her to submit to my lead, and I am to submit to her needs. You ladies can think what ever you want to, just make sure you get a man that is cool with you leading and running the household. I know some men like that. Hey, if they're cool with it, then that's their business, but in my relationship, I'm the man and I'm the one who makes the final decision. When I'm with a woman, I'll do anything for her. I want to make her happy at all costs. I'm not perfect, but I do my best, with what I have. I'm faithful, and I'm a one woman man, always have been and I always will be, but I was raised to lead my woman, and to only know when to listen to her. I'm not saying she'll submit everytime, but that's why relationships take work. But again, if it works for you ladies runnin the show, go ahead and run it. Good luck.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by OneTimeSBX

if shes not behind you, but you are in the lead...please explain!

oh and uhh, do you explain that exactly how you put it when you enter relationships? even my most religious, old fashioned girlfriends would be a bit surprised. it comes off a bit...pushy?

Easy. If we are discussing an issue that needs to be resolved, and we can't come to an agreement, then the man's decision is the final one. She should follow him. Now, I'm not saying to follow, if the joker is jacked up, not working, out cheating, runnin' the streets, hell I wouldn't sumit to that either. OneTimeSBX, you have your opinion, and I'm not going to argue with you. It would be pointless doing so. Again good luck in your relationships.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by OneTimeSBX

i have no problem with the "wife submissive to her husband" rule. ooh, see that? it said WIFE! that, my friend, is where the line is. i am generally submissive as a fiancee, but not to the level i will be after we say "i do"...

my problem with the "our women" slant a few of you mentioned, is that i hear it too often. it is the answer a lot of times to the "why are you dating outside your race?" question. i dont mind interracial dating at all, mind you, but think its unfair to black women when we are stereotyped in that way. after all the oppression we, as a people, went thru together, you would think you would want a strong black woman. there are so many of "our women" who are without men and raising children for various reasons. you should support that strength in us!

we, in turn, AS WOMEN need to learn that skill of letting you all do your thing. not specifically as black women. oh, and uh, dont tell me every man is MAN ENOUGH to lead a household...hmm?

You're right, there are some sorry jokers out there who don't/won't work, cheat, run the streets, hang out at clubs w/o their woman beside them, hang out at bars to get drunk and pick up hoish women. Yeah, that's a poor excuse for a man, and I wouldn't give a squirt of piss for a joker like that. And hell no, they won't lead. Men like that are content with the woman leading. In fact these men look for a sugar mama. They literally want to be taken care of. Lazy jokers.

As far as black women are concerned, according to Ebony, 70% of them are single. What I have a problem with is when black women get mad when they see a black man with a white woman. Hell, that's their business. I don't know what's up with that.

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

I didn't say she had to walk behind me, but I will be the head and she is to submit to my lead. Period. If you don't agree with it, that's cool. Good luck in your future relationships.

No, I don’t agree with it but I wasn’t trying to argue with you either. I though it was decent dialogue. You put it out there and I was responding to your opinion. Just looking for some insight.

And for the record, I never said anything about her being behind, I simply asked why you couldn't walk together.

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

[B]Leading doesn't mean ruling with an iron fist. Submitting doesn't mean she's his servant. They can walk side by side, but again walking side by side means for her to submit to my lead, and I am to submit to her needs. You ladies can think what ever you want to, just make sure you get a man that is cool with you leading and running the household. I know some men like that. Hey, if they're cool with it, then that's their business, but in my relationship, I'm the man and I'm the one who makes the final decision. When I'm with a woman, I'll do anything for her. I want to make her happy at all costs. I'm not perfect, but I do my best, with what I have. I'm faithful, and I'm a one woman man, always have been and I always will be, but I was raised to lead my woman, and to only know when to listen to her. I'm not saying she'll submit everytime, but that's why relationships take work. But again, if it works for you ladies runnin the show, go ahead and run it. Good luck.

Dont get it twisted. I said equal

Merriam-Webster English dictionary
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
Main Entry: 1equal
Pronunciation: 'E-kw&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin aequalis, from aequus level, equal
1 a (1) : of the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another (2) : identical in mathematical value or logical denotation : EQUIVALENT b : like in quality, nature, or status c : like for each member of a group, class, or society <provide equal employment opportunities>
2 : regarding or affecting all objects in the same way : IMPARTIAL
3 : free from extremes: as a : tranquil in mind or mood b : not showing variation in appearance, structure, or proportion
4 a : capable of meeting the requirements of a situation or a task b : SUITABLE <bored with work not equal to his abilities>
synonym see SAME



Merriam-Webster English dictionary
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary.htm

submit

Main Entry: sub·mit
Pronunciation: s&b-'mit
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): sub·mit·ted; sub·mit·ting
Etymology: Middle English submitten, from Latin submittere to lower, submit, from sub- + mittere to send
transitive verb
1 a : to yield to governance or authority b : to subject to a condition, treatment, or operation <the metal was submitted to analysis>
2 : to present or propose to another for review, consideration, or decision <submit a question to the court> <submit a bid on a contract> <submit a report>; also : to deliver formally <submitted my resignation>
3 : to put forward as an opinion or contention <we submit that the charge is not proved>
intransitive verb
1 a : to yield oneself to the authority or will of another : SURRENDER b : to permit oneself to be subjected to something <had to submit to surgery>
2 : to defer to or consent to abide by the opinion or authority of another
synonym see YIELD - sub·mit·tal /-'mi-t&l/ noun