Too fat to recruit: or, DePauw, the Sequel

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by bluefish81

There's a lot of other things to be done during recruitment besides just talking to PNMs.

Yes, there is, but from what we are gathering, she was asked not to COME to Recruitment at all!

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

It doesn't HAVE to be done, at all. There are other avenues of dealing with the situation, aside from the concept of "quality over quantity."

Please share these other avenues with me; I'd love to hear what they are.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Please share these other avenues with me; I'd love to hear what they are.

I've already stated numerous other ways to deal with this situation in my various posts, but I will humor you...

They could, instead of telling her not to attend:

-Train her one on one about what to talk about with PNMs, if she has bad social skills.
-Talk to her about what she feels she can best contribute to recruitment.
-Be supportive of the fact that she is their sister, and ENCOURAGE her to be with them throughout recruitment, not make her feel like she has to be "in the background."

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Let's drop the debate about whether rushees care about fat girls and whether you want superficial rushees in your chapter, and work from the following premise:

Hiding the fat girls in back will ensure more rushees pledge your chapter.

If you know that to be true, is it worth it to hurt a sister's feelings? My answer is yes. The only way for a small chapter to recover at a big school is to increase numbers.

I know I will get a lot of responses about quality over quantity, but you simply can not be a strong chapter if you are much smaller than the others. You don't have the money, you don't have the number of women volunteering their time as officers, and you don't have the presence on campus.

It's unfortunate, but it has to be done.

I'm not sure that the premise can actually be accepted period.* I'm willing to go along with the idea that it's in the interest of the chapter to manipulate the superficial aspects of recruitment to some degree, but the ill-will within the chapter such a move will create with the member and her authentic friends will counteract any "appearance" based benefits.

I agree that chapters are better taking full new member classes with some girls who weren't rush crushes rather than taking only a few new members who they worshiped and not making quota. When you don't make quota, no one thinks "well they only took the top girls they wanted": people think, "they couldn't find enough girls who liked them."

But being mean to current members about appearance won't necessarily get you more PNMs in the real world.

*I draw the line of what's unacceptable long before we're trying to hide fat people, but even if I didn't: it just wouldn't work from a pragmatic point of view. Your chapter has a reputation that exists before recruitment. If you have a number of overweight members, these members are seen in letters all the time on campus. If your group is small and has several overweight members, members having to double rush because you're hiding other people will cause more problems and make you seem even smaller.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by pialpha92

If they are good enough to be your sister the other 51 weeks of the year they should be good enough to be your sister during recruitment.

Absolutely.

But valuing her membership doesn't mean she has to star in the skit if she can't act or rush every party every round if she's super shy. Nor would it mean that you needed to put a less that flattering picture in the recruitment guide. Play to the strengths of the group for what you know to be a superficial process.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

I've already stated numerous other ways to deal with this situation in my various posts, but I will humor you...

They could, instead of telling her not to attend:

-Train her one on one about what to talk about with PNMs, if she has bad social skills.
-Talk to her about what she feels she can best contribute to recruitment.
-Be supportive of the fact that she is their sister, and ENCOURAGE her to be with them throughout recruitment, not make her feel like she has to be "in the background."

Your first point has nothing to do with the situation as given. I am assuming here that the problem is appearance and nothing else.

To your second point, I agree that it should be handled delicately, and you should ask her to be in the kitchen or something instead of telling her not to show up. There is no reason to be totally mean about it, but girls aren't stupid, and if you hide them, they know why.

And your third point is not specific enough for me to understand what you mean. You are saying they should go ahead and let her rush?

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I'm not sure that the premise can actually be accepted period.* I'm willing to go along with the idea that it's in the interest of the chapter to manipulate the superficial aspects of recruitment to some degree, but the ill-will within the chapter such a move will create with the member and her authentic friends will counteract any "appearance" based benefits.

I agree that chapters are better taking full new member classes with some girls who weren't rush crushes rather than taking only a few new members who they worshiped and not making quota. When you don't make quota, no one thinks "well they only took the top girls they wanted": people think, "they couldn't find enough girls who liked them."

But being mean to current members about appearance won't necessarily get you more PNMs in the real world.

*I draw the line of what's unacceptable long before we're trying to hide fat people, but even if I didn't: it just wouldn't work from a pragmatic point of view. Your chapter has a reputation that exists before recruitment. If you have a number of overweight members, these members are seen in letters all the time on campus. If your group is small and has several overweight members, members having to double rush because you're hiding other people will cause more problems and make you seem even smaller.

Let's say that hiding the bigger girls doesn't change the number of rushers, because they are doing jobs that need to be done. It can be pragmatic in that case.

And that's just it: you will draw the line at a different place than I, because you had a different undergraduate experience, and we both differ from the OP, etc. There are schools where the chapters must compete for PNM's, and in order to survive, they must do the things that appeal to PNM's.

[SigKapCoug]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

Over weight does not equal sloppy. I know of one bigger girl in my chapter that looks about 10 times better than I do on a regular basis. She never goes out without her make up, nails, and hair done. And she can dress ten times better than I can.

I never said that. Please re-read my post and you will see I said some women are overweight and dress ir well and you would never notice.


But as everyone has said, I am not totally convinced this girl was REALLY asked not to come back because of her weight. It seems like a good excuse - like the race card. only now you can play the weight card

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

Absolutely.

But valuing her membership doesn't mean she has to star in the skit if she can't act or rush every party every round if she's super shy. Nor would it mean that you needed to put a less that flattering picture in the recruitment guide. Play to the strengths of the group for what you know to be a superficial process.

A rusher who is super shy may be off-putting to the one PNM she is rushing, but a rusher who is unattractive may be off-putting to every PNM who can see her.

I wish it weren't true as much as anyone, but small chapters have to do what they must to survive.

[KSUViolet06]

Our personal chapter experiences have alot to do with how we feel about this type of situation. For example, my chapter has never dealt with having to hide women because it wasn't something that was an issue on my campus. Greek Life wasn't SO competitive that we had to do things like that to get numbers. I think that's why I feel the way I do about this.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

A rusher who is super shy may be off-putting to the one PNM she is rushing, but a rusher who is unattractive may be off-putting to every PNM who can see her.

I wish it weren't true as much as anyone, but small chapters have to do what they must to survive.

I understand that groups need to do what they can to survive and I'm alway cautious about condemning a group for how they handle a problem that other groups address with cuts in membership selection, but I'm actually more surprised that you think it would work than that people would do it if it did.

I'm also starting to think that you mean a freak show level of unattractiveness rather than simply being less than ideal. At the point that someone is turning people off the group from across the room, maybe we're not talking about the same thing.

ETA: I'm really thinking about it. I've never known a member (or a severely limited number of members) who was so different from the rest of the group in appearance that you could "hide" her or them and gain a big advantage. Describe what we're talking about here DBB. I'm not going to judge you for it, I promise.

[Tippiechick]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Hiding the fat girls in back will ensure more rushees pledge your chapter.

If you know that to be true, is it worth it to hurt a sister's feelings? My answer is yes.

You make me want to stab my eyes out with your superficial bullshit.

BTW, in my experience, the kitchen members were from the largest chapters. Yes, I have met some of them...

To me, I would rather have 30 truly exceptional SISTERS than 300 women joined by name only.

[James]

But what if having these 30 exceptional sisters prevents you from having 70 more exceptional sisters?

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

You make me want to stab my eyes out with your superficial bullshit.

BTW, in my experience, the kitchen members were from the largest chapters. Yes, I have met some of them...

To me, I would rather have 30 truly exceptional SISTERS than 300 women joined by name only.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Our personal chapter experiences have alot to do with how we feel about this type of situation. For example, my chapter has never dealt with having to hide women because it wasn't something that was an issue on my campus. Greek Life wasn't SO competitive that we had to do things like that to get numbers. I think that's why I feel the way I do about this.

I agree totally with your statement, and I tried to make that point above. I wish every chapter on every campus could totally be themselves, and make quota doing so, but that just isn't the case.

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I understand that groups need to do what they can to survive and I'm alway cautious about condemning a group for how they handle a problem that other groups address with cuts in membership selection, but I'm actually more surprised that you think it would work than that people would do it if it did.

I'm also starting to think that you mean a freak show level of unattractiveness rather than simply being less than ideal. At the point that someone is turning people off the group from across the room, maybe we're not talking about the same thing.

ETA: I'm really thinking about it. I've never known a member I(or a severely limited number of members) who was so different from the rest of the group in appearance that you could "hide" her or them and gain a big advantage. Describe what we're talking about here DBB. I'm not going to judge you for it, I promise.

Hahaha, I am not going to post pics or anything, but let's say you have a chapter of 30 and 2 women are fairly overweight. I know they may be great girls, but those two women would be enough, on some campuses, to earn you the reputation of "the fat sorority".

You bring up a whole separate issue, though. Is it better to not bid these women at all than to bid them and then ask them to be your computer committee the following year?

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

To me, I would rather have 30 truly exceptional SISTERS than 300 women joined by name only.

That's fine, but I certainly hope you don't need 50 women paying rent to keep your chapter house. Some of us do.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by James

But what if having these 30 exceptional sisters prevents you from having 70 more exceptional sisters?

If the appearance of the current sisters is the only reason 70 won't join, it's hard to accept that the 70 would be more exceptional, I suspect.

We all want fun, social chapters (into which attractiveness figures; let's be honest), but we don't want a sisterhood based only on physical attractiveness.

[Tippiechick]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

That's fine, but I certainly hope you don't need 50 women paying rent to keep your chapter house. Some of us do.

Been there done that. Chose not to recruit solely for the sake of having warm bodies to keep the house operational.