Too fat to recruit: or, DePauw, the Sequel

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Let's drop the debate about whether rushees care about fat girls and whether you want superficial rushees in your chapter, and work from the following premise:

Hiding the fat girls in back will ensure more rushees pledge your chapter.

If you know that to be true, is it worth it to hurt a sister's feelings? My answer is yes. The only way for a small chapter to recover at a big school is to increase numbers.

I know I will get a lot of responses about quality over quantity, but you simply can not be a strong chapter if you are much smaller than the others. You don't have the money, you don't have the number of women volunteering their time as officers, and you don't have the presence on campus.

It's unfortunate, but it has to be done.

[kathykd2005]

It doesn't HAVE to be done, at all. There are other avenues of dealing with the situation, aside from the concept of "quality over quantity." It's just plain cruel--can you imagine if it happened to YOU? What if you were the person who was overweight and hidden by the same sisters who professed to LOVE you? What if the sister had a medical condition that caused her to gain weight, or something else medically wrong? Or, what if the chapter that was suffering was YOURS? Think about it--I doubt you would view it in the same way...

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Let's drop the debate about whether rushees care about fat girls and whether you want superficial rushees in your chapter, and work from the following premise:

Hiding the fat girls in back will ensure more rushees pledge your chapter.

If you know that to be true, is it worth it to hurt a sister's feelings? My answer is yes. The only way for a small chapter to recover at a big school is to increase numbers.

I know I will get a lot of responses about quality over quantity, but you simply can not be a strong chapter if you are much smaller than the others. You don't have the money, you don't have the number of women volunteering their time as officers, and you don't have the presence on campus.

It's unfortunate, but it has to be done.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

It doesn't HAVE to be done, at all. There are other avenues of dealing with the situation, aside from the concept of "quality over quantity."

Please share these other avenues with me; I'd love to hear what they are.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Please share these other avenues with me; I'd love to hear what they are.

I've already stated numerous other ways to deal with this situation in my various posts, but I will humor you...

They could, instead of telling her not to attend:

-Train her one on one about what to talk about with PNMs, if she has bad social skills.
-Talk to her about what she feels she can best contribute to recruitment.
-Be supportive of the fact that she is their sister, and ENCOURAGE her to be with them throughout recruitment, not make her feel like she has to be "in the background."

[pialpha92]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Let's drop the debate about whether rushees care about fat girls and whether you want superficial rushees in your chapter, and work from the following premise:

Hiding the fat girls in back will ensure more rushees pledge your chapter.

If you know that to be true, is it worth it to hurt a sister's feelings? My answer is yes. The only way for a small chapter to recover at a big school is to increase numbers.

But I don't think this occurring is exclusive to struggling chapters or bigger campuses. Unfortunately, there are shallow chapters (or advisors) across the spectrum. I think it is sad that some chapters will hide members 'in the kitchen' based solely on superficial reasons. It is one thing if the member asks to be there - quite another to tell them they are not good enough.

If they are good enough to be your sister the other 51 weeks of the year they should be good enough to be your sister during recruitment.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by pialpha92

If they are good enough to be your sister the other 51 weeks of the year they should be good enough to be your sister during recruitment.

Hear, hear!

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by pialpha92

If they are good enough to be your sister the other 51 weeks of the year they should be good enough to be your sister during recruitment.

Exactly. If something about a person concerns the chapter SO much that she is not allowed to participate in recruitment, then she shouldn't have been bid in the first place.

In any of these "they hid/expelled me because I was overweight" stories, I am generally inclined to believe that there is more to it than just the girl's weight that led to the chapter's decision.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by pialpha92

If they are good enough to be your sister the other 51 weeks of the year they should be good enough to be your sister during recruitment.

Absolutely.

But valuing her membership doesn't mean she has to star in the skit if she can't act or rush every party every round if she's super shy. Nor would it mean that you needed to put a less that flattering picture in the recruitment guide. Play to the strengths of the group for what you know to be a superficial process.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

Absolutely.

But valuing her membership doesn't mean she has to star in the skit if she can't act or rush every party every round if she's super shy. Nor would it mean that you needed to put a less that flattering picture in the recruitment guide. Play to the strengths of the group for what you know to be a superficial process.

A rusher who is super shy may be off-putting to the one PNM she is rushing, but a rusher who is unattractive may be off-putting to every PNM who can see her.

I wish it weren't true as much as anyone, but small chapters have to do what they must to survive.

[KSUViolet06]

Our personal chapter experiences have alot to do with how we feel about this type of situation. For example, my chapter has never dealt with having to hide women because it wasn't something that was an issue on my campus. Greek Life wasn't SO competitive that we had to do things like that to get numbers. I think that's why I feel the way I do about this.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

A rusher who is super shy may be off-putting to the one PNM she is rushing, but a rusher who is unattractive may be off-putting to every PNM who can see her.

I wish it weren't true as much as anyone, but small chapters have to do what they must to survive.

I understand that groups need to do what they can to survive and I'm alway cautious about condemning a group for how they handle a problem that other groups address with cuts in membership selection, but I'm actually more surprised that you think it would work than that people would do it if it did.

I'm also starting to think that you mean a freak show level of unattractiveness rather than simply being less than ideal. At the point that someone is turning people off the group from across the room, maybe we're not talking about the same thing.

ETA: I'm really thinking about it. I've never known a member (or a severely limited number of members) who was so different from the rest of the group in appearance that you could "hide" her or them and gain a big advantage. Describe what we're talking about here DBB. I'm not going to judge you for it, I promise.

[bluefish81]

I have to think that there's more to this than just the member's weight, i.e. perhaps she can't recruit very well. How many times do we personally remember or have read a story about a PNM that went to XYZ chapter and they had to carry the conversation? Thus had a bad impression of the chapter and cut it as result. I'm not in favor of having women of any size sit out, but I think it's important to put the best recruiters out there, especially if you're trying to help a sinking ship. There's a lot of other things to be done during recruitment besides just talking to PNMs.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by bluefish81

There's a lot of other things to be done during recruitment besides just talking to PNMs.

Yes, there is, but from what we are gathering, she was asked not to COME to Recruitment at all!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Let's drop the debate about whether rushees care about fat girls and whether you want superficial rushees in your chapter, and work from the following premise:

Hiding the fat girls in back will ensure more rushees pledge your chapter.

If you know that to be true, is it worth it to hurt a sister's feelings? My answer is yes. The only way for a small chapter to recover at a big school is to increase numbers.

I know I will get a lot of responses about quality over quantity, but you simply can not be a strong chapter if you are much smaller than the others. You don't have the money, you don't have the number of women volunteering their time as officers, and you don't have the presence on campus.

It's unfortunate, but it has to be done.

I'm not sure that the premise can actually be accepted period.* I'm willing to go along with the idea that it's in the interest of the chapter to manipulate the superficial aspects of recruitment to some degree, but the ill-will within the chapter such a move will create with the member and her authentic friends will counteract any "appearance" based benefits.

I agree that chapters are better taking full new member classes with some girls who weren't rush crushes rather than taking only a few new members who they worshiped and not making quota. When you don't make quota, no one thinks "well they only took the top girls they wanted": people think, "they couldn't find enough girls who liked them."

But being mean to current members about appearance won't necessarily get you more PNMs in the real world.

*I draw the line of what's unacceptable long before we're trying to hide fat people, but even if I didn't: it just wouldn't work from a pragmatic point of view. Your chapter has a reputation that exists before recruitment. If you have a number of overweight members, these members are seen in letters all the time on campus. If your group is small and has several overweight members, members having to double rush because you're hiding other people will cause more problems and make you seem even smaller.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

I've already stated numerous other ways to deal with this situation in my various posts, but I will humor you...

They could, instead of telling her not to attend:

-Train her one on one about what to talk about with PNMs, if she has bad social skills.
-Talk to her about what she feels she can best contribute to recruitment.
-Be supportive of the fact that she is their sister, and ENCOURAGE her to be with them throughout recruitment, not make her feel like she has to be "in the background."

Your first point has nothing to do with the situation as given. I am assuming here that the problem is appearance and nothing else.

To your second point, I agree that it should be handled delicately, and you should ask her to be in the kitchen or something instead of telling her not to show up. There is no reason to be totally mean about it, but girls aren't stupid, and if you hide them, they know why.

And your third point is not specific enough for me to understand what you mean. You are saying they should go ahead and let her rush?

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I'm not sure that the premise can actually be accepted period.* I'm willing to go along with the idea that it's in the interest of the chapter to manipulate the superficial aspects of recruitment to some degree, but the ill-will within the chapter such a move will create with the member and her authentic friends will counteract any "appearance" based benefits.

I agree that chapters are better taking full new member classes with some girls who weren't rush crushes rather than taking only a few new members who they worshiped and not making quota. When you don't make quota, no one thinks "well they only took the top girls they wanted": people think, "they couldn't find enough girls who liked them."

But being mean to current members about appearance won't necessarily get you more PNMs in the real world.

*I draw the line of what's unacceptable long before we're trying to hide fat people, but even if I didn't: it just wouldn't work from a pragmatic point of view. Your chapter has a reputation that exists before recruitment. If you have a number of overweight members, these members are seen in letters all the time on campus. If your group is small and has several overweight members, members having to double rush because you're hiding other people will cause more problems and make you seem even smaller.

Let's say that hiding the bigger girls doesn't change the number of rushers, because they are doing jobs that need to be done. It can be pragmatic in that case.

And that's just it: you will draw the line at a different place than I, because you had a different undergraduate experience, and we both differ from the OP, etc. There are schools where the chapters must compete for PNM's, and in order to survive, they must do the things that appeal to PNM's.