The Devil's Advocate: Imus/Rap industry

[lovelyivy84]

Originally Posted by laylo

I wasn't arguing White double standards, only that the Black community has a limited ability to manipulate an industry for which they are not the main consumers, and the protestors of Imus are a smaller number still.

Great point- many, many Black people have commented on hip-hop's dark, violent, woman-hating elements, and many more have supported the protests with their time, voices and money, but it hasn't changed anything. We are not the main consumers of hip-hop culture. Our approval or the lack thereof will have no appreciable impact on the record labels bottom lines- as a matter of fact, the more loudly the voices complaining about the music (Dolores Tucker comes immediately to mind) the more popular it becomes with the public at large (similar to what happened in rock music when the explicit stickers went on the records- those artists were suddenly perceived as heroes by the public- just watch VH1).

[shinerbock]

Laylo,

I still disagree that the feasibility argument makes the two non-comparable. I think it may have some impact on the argument, but I don't see that it would render it moot.

[Honeykiss1974]

Rap Mogul Takes On Obama
Russell Simmons Said the Presidential Candidate Should Not Criticize 'Poets' for Slurs

By JAKE TAPPER and JERRY TULLY

April 16, 2007 — Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., found himself criticized Monday by one of rap and hip-hop's leading producers, Def Jam Records co-founder Russell Simmons, who challenged the presidential candidate to stop criticizing rappers' lyrics and start working to improve the urban-American world that inspires them.

"My response to Sen. Obama is that you have to talk about the poverty and ignorance that creates such a climate that the poets can talk like that," Simmons told ABC News. "And all the politicians owe them an education and an opportunity for a better life — and maybe they'll say something better."

Obama, the first presidential candidate to call for shock jock Don Imus to be fired for his racist comments about the Rutgers University women's basketball team, has said it's troublesome to condemn Imus' "nappy-headed hos" slur without addressing similar language used by rap and hip-hop musicians.

At a fundraising dinner for the South Carolina Legislative Black Caucus in Columbia, S.C., Friday, Obama said, "We've got to admit to ourselves, that it was not the first time that we heard the word 'ho.' Turn on the radio station. There are a whole lot of songs that use the same language … We've been permitting it in our homes, and in our schools and on iPods."

Read the rest of the article here

[pinkies up]

Russell Simmons needs to sit down somewhere.

[Still BLUTANG]

russy doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds him.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by pinkies up

Russell Simmons needs to sit down somewhere.

I was watching Oprah yesterday and he kept insisting on calling these rappers artists and poets, and I am sorry but not all of them are. And the ubiquity of this derogatory language in a rap song is not explained away by the fact that they are poets holding up a mirror that reflects their experience. If they are poets 1) they should have a greater command of language so that they do not use the same language over and over again; 2)they should be conscious of the way that they are using language (and I just don't see that kind of consciousness reflected in much of this music); 3) there should be more depth to the experience that they mirror; Our communities are not one-dimensional filled with loose moraled women and men, drugs, and bling. There is much more going on there, and a poet should be able to capture these things.

I agree that we need to address the conditions that some of these artists rap about, but at the same time there are a lot of other artists that don't use that kind of language and still manage to communicate a message and a truth about their experience.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Little32

I was watching Oprah yesterday and he kept insisting on calling this rappers artists and poets, and I am sorry but not all of them are. And the ubiquity of this derogatory language in a rap song is not explained away by the fact that they are poets holding up a mirror that reflects their experience. If the are poets 1) they should have a greater command of language so that they do not use the same language over and over again; 2)they should be conscious of the way that they are using language (and I just don't see that kind of consciousness reflected in much of this music); 3) there should be more depth to the experience that they mirror; Our communities are not one-dimensional filled with loose moraled women and men, drugs, and bling. There is much more going on there, and a poet should be able to capture these things.

I agree that we need to address the conditions that some of these artists rap about, but at the same time there are a lot of other artists that don't use that kind of language and still manage to communicate a message and a truth about their experience.

My white opinion is that nobody should tell them what to say or how to say it. The problem obviously comes not with what they say, but how society chooses to glorify it.

[lovelyivy84]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

My white opinion is that nobody should tell them what to say or how to say it.

I fully agree- and that is why none of us in the black community can stop them.

We have no right to tell them what to say/express.

We are not the primary consumers of their work, so our lack of monetary support has no effect on them whatsoever (as it is I doubt many people who actually buy hip-hop in the "community" are paying more than 5 bucks at the bootleg man ANYWAY, we are currently not supporting them with our money as it is).

Historically, when a black leader (ha ha) has offered any censure, their sales have gone up.

The only protests that I've seen that I thought were in any way significant were those like the Spelman women's refusal to have Nelly come speak on their campus. But even that did not affect his overall popularity in the slightes, it just sent a clear message to the few people who were payign attention (I only read about it on gc).

So I guess I just don't understand what the fabled "black community" is supposed to do next.