The Term African American

[Sista]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

The term is actually "social construction." It should mean to Ch2tf what it means to everyone, regardless of how the definition is worded:

I interpret this as an indirect insult. Did I word that correctly, if so, you should know what I mean?

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Constructs like race are not biological but are instead social designations and result in certain social interactions and meanings. We create meaning in our observed differences between people and exaggerate whatever differences there are.
As Luther said "a chair is still a chair, even if there's no one sitting there" because we decided that there is a such thing as a "chair."

Luther's song was a good analogy for what it seems like you are saying.
From your idea of Social designations/Social construction, this means a persons race can change randomly, even within a ten year period depending on other factors.

I do a lot of traveling and I am constantly learning things which gives me a different social outlook to life and the people I meet in this life. Is my race determined by my exaggerated differences in others? If so, I am very mixed up...LOL

Suppose I am an adaptable person who pretty much becomes, with no problems at all, a part of any culture I am in the company of for long periods of time. What if I am a Nomad who does not really have a place to call home? Home would be basically where I unpack my things at once I arrive and where ever I arrive, the people are always very much so different from me, yet I manage to blend in?

"a chair is still a chair, even if there's no one sitting there"
"a Negro is a Negroe, even when he has went to Harvard"


No matter what, he will never change because his physical characteristics tells a story about him.

If the chair is made of material lets say wood and no one is sitting in the chair, for what ever reason, the chair can be chopped up and used for firewood. Before it was a chair, it was a pile of cut up trees.

The Negro will be and was always a Negro.

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by Sista

Luther's song was a good analogy for what it seems like you are saying.
From your idea of Social designations/Social construction, this means a persons race can change randomly, even within a ten year period depending on other factors.

Yes, exactly - a person's race is not fixed. The same person may be considered black in America and white somewhere else (Brazil, perhaps?), and some other thing entirely some other place. There are "races" which other countries label that we don't here - the entire concept of race is extremely fluid.

[Sista]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

Yes, exactly - a person's race is not fixed. The same person may be considered black in America and white somewhere else (Brazil, perhaps?), and some other thing entirely some other place. There are "races" which other countries label that we don't here - the entire concept of race is extremely fluid.

What you are now saying in the above quote is a persons race is tied into the ignorance of other people? Well, that makes sense in a racist way.

Also, it looks like what you are saying is a persons race is not determined by he or she but by how other people/outsiders perceive them to be. Is that what you are also saying?

[laylo]

Originally Posted by Sista

What you are now saying in the above quote is a persons race is tied into the ignorance of other people? Well, that makes sense in a racist way.

Also, it looks like what you are saying is a persons race is not determined by he or she but by how other people/outsiders perceive them to be. Is that what you are also saying?

Other countries' and cultures' concepts of race are no more ignorant or racist than yours, they are simply different. The individual's concept of race is determined by the society through which s/he learned race (s/he is not an "outsider" if s/he is part of the society).

[AKA_Monet]

Well, actually, you do have both a SNP database and a hapmap that geographically designates populations of people. The point of this information is it is not individual--it is "population based". The genes themselves are not coding for anything, they are just EST's, non-coding regions, junk DNA, or RFLP's. It is the polymorphisms that are being compared from 1 million to 1 million, genome wide and cM or entire chromosome comparisons.

For instances, as I understand it, at the 21 chromosome the break to form 3 chromosomes is not ALWAYS in the same place for every child that has Down's. Most of the time it is. But it is that inherited changes that actually does not cause mutations in the parent, eventually getting to the child. Or the mutations are epigenetic which is begininng to modulate genes different from our understanding.

No, Homo sapiens sapiens are not genetically different, meaning all our genes are in the same place and where they should be. But we have high variation on how our genes are "spelled". And the similarities vs. the differences are being compared on an evolutionary level.

We are finding that the more different a genome is from another the older the group is in the population that shares similarities with those in Africa. Like they just found this guy who is related to Genghis Khan genome... They did a Y-chromosome spread.

For women, they do a mitochondrial spread.

I was going to send off my DNA to be sequenced and see what I could find... It's about $200+

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Well, actually, you do have both a SNP database and a hapmap that geographically designates populations of people. The point of this information is it is not individual--it is "population based". The genes themselves are not coding for anything, they are just EST's, non-coding regions, junk DNA, or RFLP's. It is the polymorphisms that are being compared from 1 million to 1 million, genome wide and cM or entire chromosome comparisons.

For instances, as I understand it, at the 21 chromosome the break to form 3 chromosomes is not ALWAYS in the same place for every child that has Down's. Most of the time it is. But it is that inherited changes that actually does not cause mutations in the parent, eventually getting to the child. Or the mutations are epigenetic which is begininng to modulate genes different from our understanding.

No, Homo sapiens sapiens are not genetically different, meaning all our genes are in the same place and where they should be. But we have high variation on how our genes are "spelled". And the similarities vs. the differences are being compared on an evolutionary level.

We are finding that the more different a genome is from another the older the group is in the population that shares similarities with those in Africa. Like they just found this guy who is related to Genghis Khan genome... They did a Y-chromosome spread.

For women, they do a mitochondrial spread.

I was going to send off my DNA to be sequenced and see what I could find... It's about $200+

I'm so far away from the basic genetics lessons taught in Freshman Bio, but amazingly I understood this, thanks a bunch. I've considered getting tested myself. Since you seem to have a much better understanding of the actual science of it, is there a center you would recommend?

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

I'm so far away from the basic genetics lessons taught in Freshman Bio, but amazingly I understood this, thanks a bunch. I've considered getting tested myself. Since you seem to have a much better understanding of the actual science of it, is there a center you would recommend?

My boss just recommended one and I forgot what it was. He said he sent his off for ~$150. I think it is inside mouth swabs or "buccal cells".

The irony is more an more women are being found to be chimeras. I dunno if they found male chimeras? Chimeras are one part of a persons body codes for one set of genes, whereas another part, mainly the reproductive system, codes for another set of genes. So like your kids are not genetically related to you if they take your hair or mouth swab DNA. But if they take your internal organ DNA, i.e. you thyroid or uterine, the researcher find the relationship.

[Sista]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I was going to send off my DNA to be sequenced and see what I could find... It's about $200+

Which place were you going to send it to?

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by laylo

Other countries' and cultures' concepts of race are no more ignorant or racist than yours, they are simply different. The individual's concept of race is determined by the society through which s/he learned race (s/he is not an "outsider" if s/he is part of the society).

Yes, this is what I meant

[Sista]

Originally Posted by laylo

Other countries' and cultures' concepts of race are no more ignorant or racist than yours, they are simply different.

This is the truth, we are all ignorant to some degree but that wasn't the point.

Originally Posted by laylo

The individual's concept of race is determined by the society through which s/he learned race (s/he is not an "outsider" if s/he is part of the society

I don't agree with this, I can't even agree that a part of what you said in the above quote has any type of validity.

I am a part of the American society, I am told that I am Black, African American, Colored and Negro, What will my society call me next? What you say in the above is, according to you.... My concept of race is determined by the society which I learned race, right? The people who labeled me the above names, they are not outsiders, they are right here in my society, so you tell me, which one of the titles should I accept or should I accept any of them?

Again, I don't agree that the people which live in your society are the ones who determined which race you are. Also, I am not a sponge so I don't go around letting people push onto me who I am. My individual concept is that I am African Origin and Afrcian decent, that's it and that's all.

[laylo]

Originally Posted by Sista

I am a part of the American society, I am told that I am Black, African American, Colored and Negro, What will my society call me next? What you say in the above is, according to you.... My concept of race is determined by the society which I learned race, right? The people who labeled me the above names, they are not outsiders, they are right here in my society, so you tell me, which one of the titles should I accept or should I accept any of them?

Again, I don't agree that the people which live in your society are the ones who determined which race you are. Also, I am not a sponge so I don't go around letting people push onto me who I am. My individual concept is that I am African Origin and Afrcian decent, that's it and that's all.

Black, African-American, Colored, and Negro are all different titles for the same concept. I and other posters were referring to concepts, not names. We are talking about the basic ways in which people understand racial categories and the fact that such things as racial categories were invented. As much as you want to take credit for your Uhuru philosophy, it is not individual. It is based on the placing of people of detectable African descent into one category together, which you learned at a young age. All humans are socialized, and that doesn't make you less of an independent thinker.

[Sista]

Originally Posted by laylo

Black, African-American, Colored, and Negro are all different titles for the same concept. I and other posters were referring to concepts, not names. We are talking about the basic ways in which people understand racial categories and the fact that such things as racial categories were invented. As much as you want to take credit for your Uhuru philosophy, it is not individual. It is based on the placing of people of detectable African descent into one category together, which you learned at a young age. All humans are socialized, and that doesn't make you less of an independent thinker.

My Uhuru philosophy? Some of you people in here really have a lot of nerve. This Greek stuff has really gotten to you colored people. Or would you prefer Negro?

By the way, are you an independent thinker? You seem to be hell bent on taking away from me my ability to think for my self, yet you push what you have been taught and not what you perceive from an individual basis.


All that you have spat here in this topic, is what you accept, I don't have to accept what you accept. You can believe all you want that the people around you get to title you but I don't have to believe what you believe. All that you learn in school is stolen and plagiarized philosophy. Originally, it was the rich who could afford to invest in their philosophy and create universities which would expand their philosophy out of others. I said that to say this, it was an individual alone who is responsible for what you know and what you have accepted to be the truth. That type of education no doubt, has it perks but one needs to also generate ones own ideals from with in.

If I was able to finance and promote my as you say, "Uhuru philosophy", all that you believe in right now would be challeneged. As I am sure I am not the only one who does not follow what you yourself has chosen to accept.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Sista

I interpret this as an indirect insult. Did I word that correctly, if so, you should know what I mean?

Don't be so easily insulted. I like for people to get terms correct and for people to not debate over things that are undebatable. Simple as that. [/QUOTE]

[Sista]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Don't be so easily insulted. I like for people to get terms correct and for people to not debate over things that are undebatable. Simple as that.

Please excuse me, I didn't know you were so dictatorial, Oh, but then again, I did


Mr. Chaos, what gives you the right to say what is and what is not debatable? You like for people do get the terms correct? You have a lot of nerve. I wasn't insulted at all, I was being sarcastic and at the same time letting you know that I could read in betweeen your sublte lines.

Hey, are you a white man? You strike me as one

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Sista

Please excuse me, I didn't know you were so dictatorial, Oh, but then again, I did

Good.