Michael Richards aka "Kramer" racist?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by _Opi_

I'm sorry but if someone said nigger or "nigguh" to me I would think he/she would be racist. I wouldn't dwell on their why they would say something, but as long as it was "unwelcome" and "unnecessary", I would deem them to be racist. Otherwise, WHY would that person say something racist if they didn't want to be seen that way???

Why do black people call themselves that all the time? I'm sorry but its almost like they are welcoming the probobility of a non-black using the word towards them. I certainly don't go around calling my friends "crackers" and "whiteys."

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by macallan25

So what do you call a person that calls a black man "nigger/nigga" just because he always heres them saying it to each other and didn't think anything bad about it. I don't know if there is actually anyone that naive still left on the planet......but it could happen. Do you call him a racist?

Seriously macallan, you know that it's a completely different situation. In your hypothetical there isn't a white man pointing and saying "He's a nigger! He's a nigger!".

I really cannot believe anyone is trying to explain Richards' use of the word or his behavior.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by OtterXO

It was very uncomfortable. He was rambling on about being sorry and that he's not racist. I think he should have left it alone.....the Letterman appearance didn't do much for him.

I saw it too. I think the gravity of the situation was sinking in. At one point he was actually shaking.

I don't think 'Kramer' was being so much a racist, as he was just probably trying to get the hecklers to shut-up. I think he probably thought that if he could really insult them then they would shut up. He just used a bad choice of words.

I'm not saying that what he did is excusable. I mean he is probably very frustrated that his TV/movie career has tanked, and now he is back doing club stand up.

[macallan25]

I think he wanted to do standup as a new venture. He has never done it before. Thats why guys like George Lopez were commenting on the situation. The guy was making millions per episode on Seinfeld and did over 20 films.......he hasnt tanked. Lopez made a good point in saying that he obviously had no idea how to handle unruly crowds and he made a very bad decision.

[cutie_cat_4ever]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Incorrect.

Even with the derivatives of the word, the N word will always have a place in history and in the hearts of many Americans. The entertainment world hasn't made it appropriate for white people to say the N word. The only white people I can tolerate saying that word in any form are white sociolinguists and even these professionals try not to overuse that contextual privilege.

I guess I should clarify a bit more, that while I think that it's inappropriate to call people with names (and heck, I've been called names too since I'm non-white), you have to admit that the younger generation isn't exposed to what the African Americans had suffer in the past, they do not realize that "seriousness" of this word. And it doesn't help that certain music genres use of such rasicts words (also sexist if you want, different versions of racial slur), it makes does in fact make people less and less aware of how much insult and harm by just saying those words can do.

yet again, that's just how I see it...

[Phasad1913]

Originally Posted by macallan25

So what do you call a person that calls a black man "nigger/nigga" just because he always heres them saying it to each other and didn't think anything bad about it. I don't know if there is actually anyone that naive still left on the planet......but it could happen. Do you call him a racist?

We're not talking about this type of a situation and you know it. In any event, I would find both of those users of the word to have some serious issues. I never said that any and all actions by white involving race constitutes racism, what I am saying is that racism entails far more than what many people want to claim it does.

Don't assume you know enough about me to know how I feel about the use of the word nigger by anyone in any context.

Aside from this point, as you admitted yourself, no one is that naive. The whole country knows that SOME blacks' use of the word toward one another is a strange phenomenon. Despite that some white folks still don't use it even though by all means nothing is stopping them other than that fact they they KNOW why its different when they use it.

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by cutie_cat_4ever

I guess I should clarify a bit more, that while I think that it's inappropriate to call people with names (and heck, I've been called names too since I'm non-white), you have to admit that the younger generation isn't exposed to what the African Americans had suffer in the past, they do not realize that "seriousness" of this word. And it doesn't help that certain music genres use of such rasicts words (also sexist if you want, different versions of racial slur), it makes does in fact make people less and less aware of how much insult and harm by just saying those words can do.

yet again, that's just how I see it...

Right, but Richards is 58. I think older people, him included, are VERY aware of the seriousness of the word and how much of an insult it is.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

A racist. Don't assume you know enough about me to know how I feel about the use of the word n***** by anyone in any context.

When I was 12 years old, I once used the term "Arab" (pronounced AY-rab) in class and everyone died laughing. I had no idea it could be considered a racial slur.

That's what macallan is talking about. He's not addressing the Michael Richards situation per se, just wondering what you would think if someone really, truly was that unknowing.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

A racist. Don't assume you know enough about me to know how I feel about the use of the word nigger by anyone in any context.

Aside from this point, as you admitted yourself, no one is that naive. The whole country knows that SOME blacks' use of the word toward one another is a strange phenomenon. Despite that some white folks still don't use it even though by all means nothing is stopping them other than that fact they they KNOW why its different when they use it.

I'm not assuming anything. But I certainly wouldn't label a person a racist if they didn't know about the negative context behind the word.

I'm sorry, but I see very VERY few blacks that don't use that word towards one another. I certainly wouldn't call it a strange phenomenon. I hear it on a daily basis....way more than often.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by 33girl

When I was 12 years old, I once used the term "Arab" (pronounced AY-rab) in class and everyone died laughing. I had no idea it could be considered a racial slur.

That's what macallan is talking about. He's not addressing the Michael Richards situation per se, just wondering what you would think if someone really, truly was that unknowing.

Exactly.

[Phasad1913]

Originally Posted by 33girl

When I was 12 years old, I once used the term "Arab" (pronounced AY-rab) in class and everyone died laughing. I had no idea it could be considered a racial slur.

That's what macallan is talking about. He's not addressing the Michael Richards situation per se, just wondering what you would think if someone really, truly was that unknowing.

Really?You conferred with him and got clarification on what he was talking about? I've unfortunatley been exposed to many of the the things he has said and I have a pretty good idea of how he thinks on issues like this. I know what he is addressing. Not being rude to you, but I am capable of discerning his meaning and I responded to him the way I felt appropriate.

And also, you were 12 years old. We're talking about a grown man in the case of Richards and I have no idea who macallan could be talking about since, again as he, himself has acknowledged, people aren't that naive, even young ones.

[smiley21]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

AND, I don't care what you say, the man IS racist. You people who are saying this bull about you can say it and not be racist and you don't know what's in his heart and all that mess are walking around with blindfolds on. You don't have to be smacked in the head BY a person while calling you a nigger before you realize the person is a racist person. You also cannot shave parts of the definition of racism off so that what you do or say doesn't fall within it. Everytime something happens that is clearly racism in practice, someone finds a way to argue against it being actually racism. The average person knows racism when they see it and THAT was racism. He may not think he is, he may have never in his life said nigger before, but he may have just been given the wake up call of his life when he lost it and went on the way that he did. It also isn't that big of a deal to call it what it is. It isn't like racism in this country is a new concept. Why wouldn't he be racist? There are plenty of folks here in America who are. I am so tired of people playing this game like people just aren't racist in America and if they are they are so few and far between that the level of racism is negligible. How much is going to have to happen before people listen to what we have been saying forever!? This country hasn't changed as much as whites would like to think it has. Its the PEOPLE who harbor these feelings and always have, its not the government as an entity anymore. The people themselves have not come to terms with these feelings and until that happens things like this will continue to occur.

My main point is this: the man said it and it is clear as day what he meant. There is no reading between the lines to get an indication of a less sinister meaning. He said "throw him out, he's a nigger! he's a nigger". He said "50 year ago we, WE(!) would have had you upside down with a fork up your ass." That's some sick stuff and if you brush it off, then you are just as bad as he is.

I definitely agree with this. I was also thinking, "How can someone say such a vile thing about a particular ethnicity and be considered racist?". Someone does not just say something like that because they are upset. It came from a deeper place.

Kramer had a nervous breakdown and he has serious problems. That is obvious.

But I am so uncomfortable with word "racist", because the definition is too broad. Sometimes, it is obvious when someone is a racist. Other times, it is not so simple. I HATE the "N" word. I don't care who says it. My dad even says it when he is telling a joke and I wish he would stop. (FYI, I am black). But I KNOW my dad is not a racist and I truly believe you could be racist against your own race.

If he (Michael Richards) was attacked by two Cubans or Muslims instead of two blacks, I think he would have reacted the same way.
The fact of the matter is that I am not fan of Michael Richards anymore. If you don't think he is racist, then he is obviously full of hate.


One more thing, about the word "racist". How many times have we laughed at jokes that make fun of other races? No matter how graphic or light hearted the joke is, I am sure that almost all of us have had a little chuckle here and there. Where is the line drawn? Is making racial and homophobic comments ever just comedy? Should the person be considered racist if their intent is to solely make someone else feel inferior? Based on that, I would consider Michael to be a racist. He was not drunk or high. He knew full well what he was saying and how it would be taken.


I heard Paul Mooney this morning on the radio and he said that Michael Richards, Mel Gibson, and OJ Simpson need to do a movie together called, "Three Men and Thank God There's No Baby". ..lol

[Phasad1913]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I'm not assuming anything. But I certainly wouldn't label a person a racist if they didn't know about the negative context behind the word.

I'm sorry, but I see very VERY few blacks that don't use that word towards one another. I certainly wouldn't call it a strange phenomenon. I hear it on a daily basis....way more than often.

And I'm sorry, but I think its obvious that you know very VERY few blacks period. If you knew more, than it would be clear to you how wrong you happen to be.

[Reds6]

[quote=macallan25;1360860]I think he wanted to do standup as a new venture. He has never done it before. Thats why guys like George Lopez were commenting on the situation. The guy was making millions per episode on Seinfeld and did over 20 films.......he hasnt tanked. Lopez made a good point in saying that he obviously had no idea how to handle unruly crowds and he made a very bad decision.[/quote

It's my understanding he did Stand up at the start of his career.

[smiley21]

[QUOTE=Reds6;1360887]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I think he wanted to do standup as a new venture. He has never done it before. Thats why guys like George Lopez were commenting on the situation. The guy was making millions per episode on Seinfeld and did over 20 films.......he hasnt tanked. Lopez made a good point in saying that he obviously had no idea how to handle unruly crowds and he made a very bad decision.[/quote

It's my understanding he did Stand up at the start of his career.

I think he did do stand up at the beginning. Seinfeld just made him so immune to that kind of pressure because he was lovable Kramer. Because he was being heckled so harshly, he decided to attacked them in a way that would be equally hurtful.