Michigan's Prop 2 to ban affirmative action

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Do you think that a minority student deserved to get into college less than you did?

If they couldn't pass up a white student without checking the ethnicity/race box, then no I"m sorry they don't. Same goes for rich white kids who are getting in on daddy's recommendation and money. If you don't have the grades and everything else to get into the institution, then you don't deserve it more than the white/whatever student who has worked their ass off all their life. Disclaimer: I am NOT saying that there are minority students who don't work their asses off. THEY are the deserving ones. I'm glad to be part of the group that says I got into my 1st choice school on my merits rather than getting those extra admissions points for being a minority or for how much money my family has.

I wish I could find Michigan's admissions points sheet. They posted somewhere before but I can't remember where. Just for being a minority, you get BIG points.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I'm glad to be part of the group that says I got into my 1st choice school on my merits rather than getting those extra admissions points for being a minority or for how much money my family has.

I wish I could find Michigan's admissions points sheet. They posted somewhere before but I can't remember where. Just for being a minority, you get BIG points.

Whether or not people get into a certain college isn't the issue--it's how they do once they're there. You can brag about getting into your top school--but it's how you do once you're there that counts. If a minority student works hard and graduates within 4 years with a good GPA, then yes, he/she deserved that spot.

I believe the Grutter v. Bollinger lawsuit and subsequent decision led to the elimination of that admissions sheet at Michigan, even though the Supreme Court upheld its use. According to that sheet, however, you got the same amount of points for being the child of an alumnus and almost as many for being an athlete. Preferential treatment, whether it's based on race, class, or athletic prowess, has been here forever and is here to stay.

[shinerbock]

Munchkin, thats ridiculous. So you're telling me a minority who does well deserved to get the spot over a white kid who would have done just as well/better? Absurd.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Munchkin, thats ridiculous. So you're telling me a minority who does well deserved to get the spot over a white kid who would have done just as well/better? Absurd.

I said that anyone who does well deserves to get into college.

I don't really care one way about affirmative action, I certainly didn't benefit from it. I just hate the assumption that any minority student in college got admitted to fill a quota. The person I quoted has stated this numerous times, and that sort of "prejudism" annoys the smack out me.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I just hate the assumption that any minority student in college got admitted to fill a quota.

Hear, hear! Let's all look past the stereotypes if we can. A lot of people from all races, etc. are admitted to colleges and universities because they deserve to be there.

I think that those who don't fit that description are in the minority -- with no pun intended.

[shinerbock]

You guys can say what you want, but the fact is that minorities DO get in because of some sort of quotas, or some perceived need for minority students. Before anyone gets all upset, not all minorities, or even the majority, but it absolutely happens. So to say that "so long as you do well, its ok," completely ignores the fact that they chose a minority over white kid with equal or better abilities, simply because of their minority status. I think thats wrong.

[DeltAlum]

And in years past students weren't admitted to schools or people didn't get jobs because they weren't white.

That's wrong, too.

Do you truly believe that would have changed without a legal nudge?

Affirmative Action has some flaws -- maybe a lot of them -- but it was necessary at one time and may still be.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Whether or not people get into a certain college isn't the issue--it's how they do once they're there. You can brag about getting into your top school--but it's how you do once you're there that counts. If a minority student works hard and graduates within 4 years with a good GPA, then yes, he/she deserved that spot.

I believe the Grutter v. Bollinger lawsuit and subsequent decision led to the elimination of that admissions sheet at Michigan, even though the Supreme Court upheld its use. According to that sheet, however, you got the same amount of points for being the child of an alumnus and almost as many for being an athlete. Preferential treatment, whether it's based on race, class, or athletic prowess, has been here forever and is here to stay.

First paragraph, yes I agree with you. After the fact it doesn't matter and isn't a big deal, unless you are that person who got rejected even though you deserved that spot also.

I'm not sure about the sheet. I don't remember hearing if they did away with it. We went over it in one of my classes, and I just remember being amazed at the points you got for certain things... such as being a legacy, being an athlete, race, and all the other points they had.

I just hate the assumption that any minority student in college got admitted to fill a quota.

(sorry, i still don't know how to multi-quote!)

But that's the thing. I know that there are minority students who worked just as hard and deserve to be there, but there are many people who will assume that. (I'm trying to argue with one of the most racist transplant-Southerner I know about this whole prop 2 thing... he is one of those people) I just thought that it would eliminate that assumption and be fair to those getting rejected because of the "quota".

[southernelle25]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

But that's the thing. I know that there are minority students who worked just as hard and deserve to be there, but there are many people who will assume that. (I'm trying to argue with one of the most racist transplant-Southerner I know about this whole prop 2 thing... he is one of those people) I just thought that it would eliminate that assumption and be fair to those getting rejected because of the "quota".

Are white students ever concerned that people will assume they were admitted based on "race, class, or athletic prowess", rather than merit? If your last name is Bush, for example, do you care that everyone assumes you made it based on your family's connections??

[Taualumna]

But sometimes, departments and/or schools sway towards one group or another because that's who applies. White women make up the majority of elementary school education majors while men (especially Asian men) seem to go for hard sciences/engineering.