Christian terrorists hijack a plane

[shinerbock]

There are extremists for everything...however, I think you'd have a very difficult time showing that Christian extremists commit acts of violence even close to the level that islamic extremists do

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

There are extremists for everything...however, I think you'd have a very difficult time showing that Christian extremists commit acts of violence even close to the level that islamic extremists do

But violence is not the only standard. Think of corruption, of abuse, etc. Violence is just more in your face.

[blueangel]

I was wondering what blueangel was talking about. I couldn't find his/her Q'uran post anywhere in this thread.

Reposting this from the other thread for DSTChaos:

-------
I agree that there are extremists in many religions. All one has to do is look at the Crusades, or the Salem Witch trials.... hence, why I'm not a fan of organized religion.

However, and maybe Opi can chime in here... what is one to think about Islam when the final words of Mohammed to his disciples was, "I was ordered to fight all men until they say, "There is no god but Allah."

and, in Qur'an :39 it says, "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." and "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief --non Muslims) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone."

and in Ishaq :587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak and faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violenty before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight unti our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Perhaps I'm not reading these quotes correctly, but it doesn't seem like a faith of tolerance and peace. Opi.. could you please clarify?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by blueangel

Reposting this from the other thread for DSTChaos:

-------
I agree that there are extremists in many religions. All one has to do is look at the Crusades, or the Salem Witch trials.... hence, why I'm not a fan of organized religion.

However, and maybe Opi can chime in here... what is one to think about Islam when the final words of Mohammed to his disciples was, "I was ordered to fight all men until they say, "There is no god but Allah."

and, in Qur'an :39 it says, "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." and "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief --non Muslims) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone."

and in Ishaq :587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak and faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violenty before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight unti our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Perhaps I'm not reading these quotes correctly, but it doesn't seem like a faith of tolerance and peace. Opi.. could you please clarify?

To comment on you, I'd like you to clarify the, well, the entire Old Testament that shows, explicitly or implicitly that it is ok to kill, rape and steal for land, just because you want it.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by blueangel

Reposting this from the other thread for DSTChaos:

-------
I agree that there are extremists in many religions. All one has to do is look at the Crusades, or the Salem Witch trials.... hence, why I'm not a fan of organized religion.

However, and maybe Opi can chime in here... what is one to think about Islam when the final words of Mohammed to his disciples was, "I was ordered to fight all men until they say, "There is no god but Allah."

and, in Qur'an :39 it says, "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." and "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief --non Muslims) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone."

and in Ishaq :587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak and faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violenty before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight unti our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Perhaps I'm not reading these quotes correctly, but it doesn't seem like a faith of tolerance and peace. Opi.. could you please clarify?

Fight, onslaught, mutilate, plunder = literal or figurative? spiritual warfare or physical/actual warfare?

Any religious doctrine could be interpreted as intolerant and not peaceful. Christian doctrine says things like love thy neighbor (and so does the doctrine of other faiths...I believe the Q'uran has similar teachings) but Christianity isn't necessarily tolerant or peaceful toward 1) nonbelievers and 2) people with certain lifestyles. Depending on how Scripture is interpreted and what crazies get a hold of certain interpretations, we could see (even more) crazy Christians running around oppressing and killing people in the names of Jesus and God.

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Fight, onslaught, mutilate, plunder = literal or figurative? spiritual warfare or physical/actual warfare?

Any religious doctrine could be interpreted as intolerant and not peaceful. Christian doctrine says things like love thy neighbor (and so does the doctrine of other faiths...I believe the Q'uran has similar teachings) but Christianity isn't necessarily tolerant or peaceful toward 1) nonbelievers and 2) people with certain lifestyles. Depending on how Scripture is interpreted and what crazies get a hold of certain interpretations, we could see (even more) crazy Christians running around oppressing and killing people in the names of Jesus and God.

I agree with your point. Just look at the Christian extremists who bombed abortion clinics.

Many passages in the Bible.. both in the New and Old Testament can be interpreted many ways. That's why I was asking for an interpretation of these passages in the Q'uran.

But, could there possibly be a peaceful interpretation of the above quoted Q'uran passages? It seems to be all about "forcing" others to convert.. not about "witnessing" or "spreading the word."

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by blueangel

But, could there possibly be a peaceful interpretation of the above quoted Q'uran passages? It seems to be all about "forcing" others to convert.. not about "witnessing" or "spreading the word."

Many Christians believe in forced conversion, particular the earlier missionary efforts. Witnessing and spreading the word can be very forceful and frightening depending on who the person witnessing is and who the person being witnessed to feels about it.

Either case, there's nothing "peaceful" about figurative warfare. But it doesn't make it any less figurative.

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Many Christians believe in forced conversion, particular the earlier missionary efforts. Witnessing and spreading the word can be very forceful and frightening depending on who the person witnessing is and who the person being witnessed to feels about it.

Either case, there's nothing "peaceful" about figurative warfare. But it doesn't make it any less figurative.

I have not seen a Christian behead anyone to force them to convert. Have you?

[epchick]

Originally Posted by blueangel

However, and maybe Opi can chime in here... what is one to think about Islam when the final words of Mohammed to his disciples was, "I was ordered to fight all men until they say, "There is no god but Allah."

Perhaps I'm not reading these quotes correctly, but it doesn't seem like a faith of tolerance and peace. Opi.. could you please clarify?

Maybe you aren't understand correctly, but _Opi_ already said that she would not answer you, so please quit badgering her about answering your questions.

I'm going to say it, time and time again...if you want the answers to your question, actually go out, do some research, take a class, talk to a sheik (that's what they are called right?).

Besides, "fight" does not always mean "coming to blows" or any physical violence. For all we know, back when Mohammed said it, he could have meant something totally different.

Like others have mentioned, there are passages in the Bible that are pretty questionable now, but that is because we put our own little "twisted" spin on it.

Originally Posted by epchick

Maybe you aren't understand correctly, but _Opi_ already said that she would not answer you, so please quit badgering her about answering your questions.

Badgering. Wouldn't that be considered harassment?

[epchick]

Originally Posted by OTW

Badgering. Wouldn't that be considered harassment?

As a matter of fact, it does. According to http://www.dictionary.com, it says:

badg·er·ing
To harass or pester persistently.

See Synonyms at harass.

Well what do ya freaking know....learn something knew everyday don't cha?

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by epchick

Maybe you aren't understand correctly, but _Opi_ already said that she would not answer you, so please quit badgering her about answering your questions.

I'm going to say it, time and time again...if you want the answers to your question, actually go out, do some research, take a class, talk to a sheik (that's what they are called right?).

Besides, "fight" does not always mean "coming to blows" or any physical violence. For all we know, back when Mohammed said it, he could have meant something totally different.

Like others have mentioned, there are passages in the Bible that are pretty questionable now, but that is because we put our own little "twisted" spin on it.

Maybe YOU don't understand. I cut and pasted this from another thread for one of the posters who asked about it. I am not pressing Opi, because she has made it clear she will not answer my questions in detail.

And yes, I do agree that "fight" may not necessarily mean "come to blows" which is why I am asking for someone who is Muslim to clarify for me. So far, nobody has stepped up. Why? There never seems to be a shortage of Christians who are willing to clarify verses in the New Testament.

[kddani]

Originally Posted by blueangel

which is why I am asking for someone who is Muslim to clarify for me. So far, nobody has stepped up. Why? There never seems to be a shortage of Christians who are willing to clarify verses in the New Testament.

Last time I checked, the official Muslim spokesperson is not a member of GC, unless I missed their thread somewhere.

Just because there's Christians who are willing to "clarify" things doesn't mean that a) they should; b) they're correct; or c) that they have ANY idea of what they're talking about. It's nice that the Muslim GC members have more sense than that.

If you'd like to learn more about the Muslim culture and teachings, do your own research and stop demanding that others educate you. You alone are responsible for your own learning.

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by kddani

Last time I checked, the official Muslim spokesperson is not a member of GC, unless I missed their thread somewhere.

Just because there's Christians who are willing to "clarify" things doesn't mean that a) they should; b) they're correct; or c) that they have ANY idea of what they're talking about. It's nice that the Muslim GC members have more sense than that.

If you'd like to learn more about the Muslim culture and teachings, do your own research and stop demanding that others educate you. You alone are responsible for your own learning.

This is a discussion board last that I checked. Is Opi immune from defending her statements in her first post? Afterall, she brought religion into the news media coverage of the hijacking, and it is she who is making a premise that she does't seem to be able to defend.

[mulattogyrl]

Originally Posted by kddani

Last time I checked, the official Muslim spokesperson is not a member of GC, unless I missed their thread somewhere.

Just because there's Christians who are willing to "clarify" things doesn't mean that a) they should; b) they're correct; or c) that they have ANY idea of what they're talking about. It's nice that the Muslim GC members have more sense than that.

If you'd like to learn more about the Muslim culture and teachings, do your own research and stop demanding that others educate you. You alone are responsible for your own learning.

THANK YOU.