UGa Chi Phis declared 'open season' on black women?

[Soul D-Psi-ple]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

but would closing their chapter really remove any ignorance? I think it would only cause more tension and set up an "us vs. them" mentality or continune or worsen it.

No, it would not remove individual ignorance, but it would remove an organization from the campus that represents ignorance. I can't really think of any accredited 4-year institution that wants to associated with that. Can you?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple

I can't really think of any accredited 4-year institution that wants to associated with that. Can you?

Accredited 4-year insitutions have been associated with MUCH worse and managed to not complain about it.

[Soul D-Psi-ple]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Accredited 4-year insitutions have been associated with MUCH worse and managed to not complain about it.

True they have been. But now, it's 2006. The question is, do they CURRENTLY want to be associated with ignorance?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple

The question is, do they CURRENTLY want to be associated with ignorance?

Some institutions CURRENTLY don't care until they are forced to care.

[Soul D-Psi-ple]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Some institutions CURRENTLY don't care until they are forced to care.

My point exactly. When an organization does something truly STUPID and IGNORANT, and the administration takes notice of this, they have to do something about it. There are MANY examples of this in the media. I doubt if any institution wants their reputation tarnished. So what point are you trying to make?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple

Comparing the offensiveness of Abortion to that of racism? Heh? No point was really made in that scenario. Controversy surrounds the issue of abortion, but IGNORANCE surrounds racism and sexism. There's right and wrong.

Actually, it was a very apt analogy and a very valid question to you. If organizations should be booted from campus for being offensive, then what difference does it make whether the offense comes from ignorance or not?

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple

What they did was wrong. It WAS offensive if black women do find it offensive. That's reality. Y'ALL do not find it offensive because you are not in their shoes.

Why do you assume that "Y'ALL do not find it offensive." Will you concede that one might very well find it offensive and warranting of a response but also believe that booting an entire organization from campus is not the appropriate response.

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple

My point exactly. When an organization does something truly STUPID and IGNORANT, and the administration takes notice of this, they have to do something about it.

Again with the assumptions. The op-ed piece quoted in the original post says: "Chi Phi fraternity pledges flashed naked images of black women to passers-by." You may infer from that "the organization" in some way is responsible for this incident, but the article doesn't state that. Meanwhile, the Athens paper says:

Campus police said seven students and a visitor photographed people's reactions as they showed them photos from a pornographic magazine.

Chi Phi President Matthew Hughes said the chapter is "embarrassed" about the incident, which was not sanctioned by the fraternity. He would not say why the students displayed the pictures.

The fraternity is cooperating with the university on the investigation, he said. "We are trying our best to go down the right path," Hughes said.

(Full article: Ga. Frat Suspended for Showing Nude Pics; emphasis added. The suspension appears to bar the chapter from sponsoring any events while the investigation is ongoing.)

[Elephant Walk]

Y'ALL do not find it offensive because you are not in their shoes. Many of y'all are quick to down play the situation when something like this happens....

Anyways, I'm not surprised by this. It is UGA after all.

You are very ignorant.

It's not really a question of what is offensive. I think it's more classless then offensive. There are better things to do with ones time.

What does UGA have anything to do with it? Anything? Remind me again, where all the race riots have occurred in the last 15 - 20 years? Philly, LA, and so on. The ignorance comes from within the ghettoes of these cities, not from the middle class South.

[Kevlar281]

Well I don’t care what anyone says I enjoy watching Flavor of Love 2…wait what thread is this?

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

The ignorance comes from within the ghettoes of these cities, not from the middle class South.

Did you attend the Dan Quayle School of Spelling?

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

You are very ignorant.

It's not really a question of what is offensive. I think it's more classless then offensive. There are better things to do with ones time.

What does UGA have anything to do with it? Anything? Remind me again, where all the race riots have occurred in the last 15 - 20 years? Philly, LA, and so on. The ignorance comes from within the ghettoes of these cities, not from the middle class South.

"Being called ignorant by a regular Greekchatter is like being called racist by a liberal, you know they're losing the argument." - Elephant Walk, Sept. 5, 2006 9:40 pm "AOPi at Arkansas" thread.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple

My point exactly.

Really?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple

I'd love to answer this, but to be honest, this little scenario you just layed down would never take place.

Translation: I would answer that, but it might show a lack of consistency and logic in what I have already said, so I think I'll just dodge the question altogether.

C'mon. If you say the UGA chapter of Chi Phi should be held accountable for the actions of their pledges, then would you also say that your chapter be held responsible for the actions of your probationary members? Saying, "it would never take place" is simply a dodge.

And interesting that you would say this:

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple

Should the whole chapter be punished? No, but they will need to answer for these guys and they cleary did and are cooperating with the administration. If it was found that the chapter was behind this then, yea, they should be punished. Period.

I think most of us would agree with this.

But earlier, when many of us were asking why the entire chapter should be punished unless it could be shown that the chapter itself was behind what these guys did, you seemed quite willing to condemn the whole chapter simply because a few pledges "weren't mindful of their actions even they knew that OTHERS knew that they were associated with the UGA chapter of Chi Phi."

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple

No, [removing the chapter] would not remove individual ignorance, but it would remove an organization from the campus that represents ignorance.

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple

When an organization does something truly STUPID and IGNORANT, and the administration takes notice of this, they have to do something about it.

So which is it? Should the chapter be punished only if the investigation shows the chapter was behind the pledges' actions, or should the chapter be punished regardless because it "represents ignorance"?

And by the way, I agree with you that racism is always wrong. I imagine Kevin does, too. But he's exactly right -- there are people who don't agree with the three of us on that. There are even people who think racism is the will of God. Kind of like how many people think abortion is always wrong and against the will of God, but others disagree with them.

[Soul D-Psi-ple]

Originally Posted by MysticCat81

Translation: I would answer that, but it might show a lack of consistency and logic in what I have already said, so I think I'll just dodge the question altogether.


C'mon. If you say the UGA chapter of Chi Phi should be held accountable for the actions of their pledges, then would you also say that your chapter be held responsible for the actions of your probationary members? Saying, "it would never take place" is simply a dodge.

It's not a dodge. Just know that it would not happen. If it did, then yea, we would have to answer for them. Now regarding drinking, nah. That's an individual thing I believe. If they get caught and none of us are involved, then thats on them. We just have to watch who we choose as our potential members ALOT more closely. But, like I said, that scenario would not happen. Just know that.

And interesting that you would say this:

I think most of us would agree with this.

But earlier, when many of us were asking why the entire chapter should be punished unless it could be shown that the chapter itself was behind what these guys did, you seemed quite willing to condemn the whole chapter simply because a few pledges "weren't mindful of their actions even they knew that OTHERS knew that they were associated with the UGA chapter of Chi Phi."



So which is it? Should the chapter be punished only if the investigation shows the chapter was behind the pledges' actions, or should the chapter be punished regardless because it "represents ignorance"?

No, they need to answer to the 'powers that be' regardless. If found that they are behind the stupidity then, yes. The chapter should be punished.

And by the way, I agree with you that racism is always wrong. I imagine Kevin does, too. But he's exactly right -- there are people who don't agree with the three of us on that. There are even people who think racism is the will of God. Kind of like how many people think abortion is always wrong and against the will of God, but others disagree with them.

Did I answer your questions a little better?

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by Soul D-Psi-ple

No, it would not remove individual ignorance, but it would remove an organization from the campus that represents ignorance. I can't really think of any accredited 4-year institution that wants to associated with that. Can you?

Please remember, we do not know if Chi Phi sanctioned their pledges to do this. It has been established that some Chi Phi pledges did it, but the membership has denied that this was a 'pledge project'. If the pledges did it on their own, they should be kicked out of Chi Phi. But, the fraternity chapter as a whole should not be punished because of something stupid that some guys - [U]who are not even members yet[U] did.

If it is proven that the chapters members got together and said: "Hey, how about this for a project to build cohension. We have the pledges take pictures of people's reactions to a porn magazine being shoved in their faces! And, better yet, let's make it a porn mag featuring black women!" "Yeah, man, that sounds like a great idea! That will totally build brotherhood and cohesion for the chapter!" If this scenerio is proven, I whole heartedly support sanctions against the whole chapter. But, not until it's been proven.

[shinerbock]

Why does it happening at UGA have anything to do with it?