Too fat to recruit: or, DePauw, the Sequel

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Our personal chapter experiences have alot to do with how we feel about this type of situation. For example, my chapter has never dealt with having to hide women because it wasn't something that was an issue on my campus. Greek Life wasn't SO competitive that we had to do things like that to get numbers. I think that's why I feel the way I do about this.

I agree totally with your statement, and I tried to make that point above. I wish every chapter on every campus could totally be themselves, and make quota doing so, but that just isn't the case.

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I understand that groups need to do what they can to survive and I'm alway cautious about condemning a group for how they handle a problem that other groups address with cuts in membership selection, but I'm actually more surprised that you think it would work than that people would do it if it did.

I'm also starting to think that you mean a freak show level of unattractiveness rather than simply being less than ideal. At the point that someone is turning people off the group from across the room, maybe we're not talking about the same thing.

ETA: I'm really thinking about it. I've never known a member I(or a severely limited number of members) who was so different from the rest of the group in appearance that you could "hide" her or them and gain a big advantage. Describe what we're talking about here DBB. I'm not going to judge you for it, I promise.

Hahaha, I am not going to post pics or anything, but let's say you have a chapter of 30 and 2 women are fairly overweight. I know they may be great girls, but those two women would be enough, on some campuses, to earn you the reputation of "the fat sorority".

You bring up a whole separate issue, though. Is it better to not bid these women at all than to bid them and then ask them to be your computer committee the following year?

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

To me, I would rather have 30 truly exceptional SISTERS than 300 women joined by name only.

That's fine, but I certainly hope you don't need 50 women paying rent to keep your chapter house. Some of us do.

[Tippiechick]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

That's fine, but I certainly hope you don't need 50 women paying rent to keep your chapter house. Some of us do.

Been there done that. Chose not to recruit solely for the sake of having warm bodies to keep the house operational.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

Been there done that. Chose not to recruit solely for the sake of having warm bodies to keep the house operational.

Please don't blast me for this, but are you saying that your chapter closed?

Do you think it served the sisterhood better not to exist on that campus than it would have to recruited differently?

[Tippiechick]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

Please don't blast me for this, but are you saying that your chapter closed?

Do you think it served the sisterhood better not to exist on that campus than it would have to recruited differently?

Yes -- we closed.

Yes -- I think ZTA is better for being off Ole Miss' campus than to be beating our heads against a brick wall trying to change a stereotype we got years before I ever arrived on campus.

We tried several DIFFERENT recruiting methods suggested to us by national consultants. In the end, all of us agreed that the stereotype was so huge that we could never overcome it.

Yes, I think we were better off keeping our sisterhood true than if we had just gotten ANYONE to join. After all, doesn't that defeat the purpose of having our special groups?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

Yes -- we closed.

Yes -- I think ZTA is better for being off Ole Miss' campus than to be beating our heads against a brick wall trying to change a stereotype we got years before I ever arrived on campus.

We tried several DIFFERENT recruiting methods suggested to us by national consultants. In the end, all of us agreed that the stereotype was so huge that we could never overcome it.

Yes, I think we were better off keeping our sisterhood true than if we had just gotten ANYONE to join. After all, doesn't that defeat the purpose of having our special groups?

I don't think the answer is ever just getting anyone to join, and I think at some campuses, it's really hard to overcome a lot of factors beyond your control.

You just have to do the best you can, and not shoot yourself in the foot when it can be avoided, like Carnation's comment about what picture was selected for the recruitment guide that I think was misinterpreted to be about girls in the photo.

Is it hiding members to try to put flattering pictures in the recruitment guide? I'd say no since not everyone is probably going to be in the photos anyway.

[dgdramadawg]

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so I may be repeating someone:

This thread refers to a large school with a competitive recruitment. When I think of that sort of school, I think of recruitments like Ole Miss, Alabama, UGA, LSU, etc. Let's face it: the grand majority of PNMs at these schools do not want to join a chapter that may brand them with a negative reputation (the "fat" house, for example). This doesn't make them bad people; most people would rather not be known as "fat." If this young lady is a member of a house on a competitive campus, clearly she has been through recruitment... she must know how being the "fat" house can hurt a chapter's return numbers. She MUST be aware that her house is a small house for a reason.

I noticed that some posts argued something along the lines of "Does being overweight make a girl a bad rusher?" No, but rush is a superficial process on both sides. If a PNM meets 80 women over the course of a whirlwind day one, will she remember the funny story the XYZ told her? Maybe. But she'll be more likely to remember if a woman looks very different from the rest of the women she meets. It doesn't make her a bad rusher. It's just the way things are. Yeah, it sucks. But we can't pretend that recruitment isn't superficial.

I wonder if the young lady in question's recruitment advisor asked her not to participate actively in recruiting rather than asking her to drop weight before recruitment? It seems odd that she would just be asked to "stay away" without any prior conversations about it.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

But she'll be more likely to remember if a woman looks very different from the rest of the women she meets. It doesn't make her a bad rusher. It's just the way things are. Yeah, it sucks. But we can't pretend that recruitment isn't superficial.

It's unfortunate that so many women view recruitment as so superficial. Also--did you ever consider the fact that a PNM might view it as a POSITIVE that this woman looks dramically different than the other women? Not all women who just go into college simply want to be in a house full of Barbies, whether it's an SEC school or not.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

It's unfortunate that so many women view recruitment as so superficial. Also--did you ever consider the fact that a PNM might view it as a POSITIVE that this woman looks dramically different than the other women? Not all women who just go into college simply want to be in a house full of Barbies, whether it's an SEC school or not.

KathyKD,

You might need to check the relationship between return rates and in-chapter percentage of Barbies before you throw out a claim like that. I'm afraid the reality of the situation might crush your spirits.

In my experience, chapter image problems are never a one girl issue.

ETA: I don't mean that image problems are more substantial or real than one girl at all. I mean they are usually way less specific factors of undesirability in the eyes of PNMs: tent talk, reputation, having problems with chapter size, etc.

[PeppyGPhiB]

So...what about the ugl, er, "less attractive" girls? Do they have to stay away too? Who gets to make the decision of who is cute enough? And how do they tell them?

I don't know how anyone could be so cold and soul-less to break their sisters' spirit like that. If I were that consultant, I couldn't do it, and I'd tell HQ that.

[Tippiechick]

This thread needs to die. It is going nowhere.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I agree totally with your statement, and I tried to make that point above. I wish every chapter on every campus could totally be themselves, and make quota doing so, but that just isn't the case.

Hahaha, I am not going to post pics or anything, but let's say you have a chapter of 30 and 2 women are fairly overweight. I know they may be great girls, but those two women would be enough, on some campuses, to earn you the reputation of "the fat sorority".

You bring up a whole separate issue, though. Is it better to not bid these women at all than to bid them and then ask them to be your computer committee the following year?

It's so interesting to talk about stuff like this because you realize how different things are from campus to campus. I'm used to campuses where reputation changes, if they happen at all, take place over a long time. So if you were known as "the fat sorority" hiding the girls during rush wouldn't help.

I'm never going to favor cutting solely on appearance, I don't think (but again, maybe for freak show girl, I'm reserving judgment.), so I can't get behind "better to not give her a bid." But I think one of the reasons why we hear more about this kind of stuff from struggling chapters is that at some chapters the women under discussion never would have gotten bids to begin with.

Does this mean the chapters who cut them have a more authentic sisterhood because they are willing to treat all members the same or a sisterhood more based on appearance because they don't let less attractive people join?

Or are they all the same in attitude but the ones who cut the less beautiful are ultimately more successful at living it out? (which I think is what I most fear.)