Quota Additions at Super Competitive Schools

[sherrybaby]

Originally Posted by Jen

I just wish PNMs would get better explanations of ranking chapters. They don't seem to be told that ranking chapters does NOT necessarily mean you are cutting chapters. So many PNMs think they're cutting when they aren't - I think explaining that the "cuts" they do only apply if they get invited to more parties than they can attend might clarify a lot of the confusion when the chapter they "cut" keeps inviting them back and they have to go.

I think this is exactly the problem on my campus. Misinformation in general has resulted in a lot of issues. When ranking the bottom two, one Rho Chi explained that ranking a chapter second to last meant we wouldn't mind seeing them again, but ranking them last meant we didn't want to see them again, with an implication that we wouldn't have to. I feel like the surprise of seeing a chapter they thought they dropped in place of a chapter they wanted made girls grumble a lot more in line at some parties - which made girls who actually liked that chapter feel nervous that this was a "bad" chapter and not want to rank it highly.

This happens with the whole suiciding/not suiciding/girls not showing up to bid day at small chapters issue, too. One of our Rho Chis was told by Panhel that they couldn't allow girls to suicide no matter what. So they were telling us the typical story that ranking a small chapter instead of leaving it off would result in someone having a better chance at super chapter, or "the computer will count you twice so you have twice the chances at the chapter you like" or something similar. When a girl is disappointed but prepared for the reality, she might go to bid day to give a chapter a chance. When she is shocked and dismayed, she is more likely to flee in tears and not show up - she hasn't had time to think through what she would do in the situation because she didn't expect it.

I know that having everyone not suicide results in more girls with bids and more chapters seeming to get total, so panhel can pat itself on the back, so I get why panhel does this - I just think it results in a lot of unnecessary resentment by girls who end up in chapters that they won't even show up to on Bid Day.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

With SORUSH, you could get an invitation from a chapter you hadn't been to in the previous round. Can that happen with PRUSH? And is anyone using SORUSH anymore?

In theory, you could get a pref invite from a chapter you hadn't seen since open houses. Would you be required to go there/list them on a bid card in order to be eligible for QA?

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

With SORUSH, you could get an invitation from a chapter you hadn't been to in the previous round. Can that happen with PRUSH? And is anyone using SORUSH anymore?

In theory, you could get a pref invite from a chapter you hadn't seen since open houses. Would you be required to go there/list them on a bid card in order to be eligible for QA?

You have to "maximize your options" in order to be eligible for QA...this means that:

1) if you have an invite and you have an available time slot, you have to attend. So if there are 3 prefs and you receive 2 or 3 invites only, then you have to accept all of them. If there are 2 prefs and you received 3 invites, you can decline 1.

and

2) you have to list all available groups on your bid card. So if you attended 3 prefs and you can list up to 3 on your card, you have to list all 3. If you only had 2 invites, attended both but can list 3 on your bid card, listing those 2 only is acceptable. You could always list another group that you attended earlier in the week and liked but were released from and that would be OK.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Titchou

You have to "maximize your options" in order to be eligible for QA...this means that:

1) if you have an invite and you have an available time slot, you have to attend. So if there are 3 prefs and you receive 2 or 3 invites only, then you have to accept all of them. If there are 2 prefs and you received 3 invites, you can decline 1.

and

2) you have to list all available groups on your bid card. So if you attended 3 prefs and you can list up to 3 on your card, you have to list all 3. If you only had 2 invites, attended both but can list 3 on your bid card, listing those 2 only is acceptable. You could always list another group that you attended earlier in the week and liked but were released from and that would be OK.

I am all for parity, but I think it would be absurd to have to list a group who you haven't visited every round. Maybe the situation doesn't come up that often now that most campuses use RFM, though.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

Getting back to the original thread, isn't this something the big panhellenic groups could work on? Those women are seeing a large number of PNMs prior to recruitment, and it seems they could achieve a lot for their chapters by explaining QAs, the benefits to accepting (happily/grudgingly) that smaller chapter, and what exactly to do with your pref card.

I read this three times and I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "big panhellenic groups." At some schools (random examples) AST is the hugest chapter and ZTA is the smallest, at some schools it's the opposite. No NPC is the biggest chapter at every campus they're on.

Unless you just mean, umm, national headquarters.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I read this three times and I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "big panhellenic groups." At some schools (random examples) AST is the hugest chapter and ZTA is the smallest, at some schools it's the opposite. No NPC is the biggest chapter at every campus they're on.

Unless you just mean, umm, national headquarters.

I think she means the alumnae panhellenics, as she says "prior" to rush. If so, I think it makes sense, that they'd be uniquely positioned to set PNM expectations very early on in the process and to push the "sisterhood is more than just four years" angle.

Of course, it will still go in one ear and out the other, because we are still talking about 18-year-olds.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I am all for parity, but I think it would be absurd to have to list a group who you haven't visited every round. Maybe the situation doesn't come up that often now that most campuses use RFM, though.

Well, it might be absurd but it is allowed and we are, after all, talking about 18 year olds! Just saying it can be done, not that it should be.

[oliviaosentoski]

Originally Posted by gee_ess

I'm late to this discussion but I am one who thinks we are definitely seeing some flaws in RFM. RFM has a lot of good points, and I think I understand the inception, and birth ot it. However, somewhere along the way, a monster was created - the monster of 'everyone gets a bid, QA's are plentiful, and pledge classes are now over 100 on many campuses.

The heavy cuts mandated for stronger chapters after round one make sense but (and woe to me for even suggesting this) I think another, equally heavy cut needs to happen just before pref.

And, on another note, my experience with QA's is that they are very, very often great, contributing members (just not superstar pnms but loved enough to get to pref). As an advisor, I often got quite a kick out of watching a QA from the previous year take a positive, leadership/active role in recruitment the next year. (keeping in mind that only I knew she was a QA,of course)

I agree with heavier cuts needing to be made before prefs. By cutting more befor pref will have less disappointed pnms and chapters on there bid day.

[IndianaSigKap]

Originally Posted by oliviaosentoski

I agree with heavier cuts needing to be made before prefs. By cutting more befor pref will have less disappointed pnms and chapters on there bid day.

Exactly, on my campus there were 4 chapters who notoriously invited 4-5 times the number of girls in relation to the number of bids they had available. At that time we could only attend two pref parties. One year it was really awful, my grand little was a Rho Chi (as they were called then) and several of the girls in her group attend preference at different combinations of these 4 chapters. None of them received a bid, she had to console over 10 women that night. After that year, the campus made a policy that chapters could not invite more than a certain percentage over their quota to preference. The following year was much better as far as the number of women who didn't match. Individual campus panhellenics need to watch the numbers and the trends to adjust accordingly each year.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by IndianaSigKap

Exactly, on my campus there were 4 chapters who notoriously invited 4-5 times the number of girls in relation to the number of bids they had available. At that time we could only attend two pref parties. One year it was really awful, my grand little was a Rho Chi (as they were called then) and several of the girls in her group attend preference at different combinations of these 4 chapters. None of them received a bid, she had to console over 10 women that night. After that year, the campus made a policy that chapters could not invite more than a certain percentage over their quota to preference. The following year was much better as far as the number of women who didn't match. Individual campus panhellenics need to watch the numbers and the trends to adjust accordingly each year.

No, no, no, individual panhellenics should be using the Release Figures Method agreed upon by the NPC.

[IndianaSigKap]

They may be using them now, but back in my day, our panhellenic did not. Thankfully, they are moving with the times. But as is pretty common knowledge, my campus is a little set in its ways.

Side question: Does RFM account for schools who use bed quota and therefore each chapter has its own quota? It's been over 8 years since I looked at a Green Book.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by IndianaSigKap

Side question: Does RFM account for schools who use bed quota and therefore each chapter has its own quota? It's been over 8 years since I looked at a Green Book.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...19#post2019919

[IndianaSigKap]

Thanks for the answer to my question. Doesn't surprise me that special accommodations have to be made.

[carnation]

This is a great thread! Does anyone have any new insights?

[DubaiSis]

I just reread this thread (can't I find ANYONE to buy a vacation from me in the travel dead zone between Thanksgiving and New Year's to keep me busier?), and I got a chuckle out of how things have changed in just a year and a half. First, the addition of 2 chapters at Arkansas and Indiana was a huge thing. Of course, we have yet to know if they will be successful, but I'm confident that they will be, and that there will be more expansions at both schools. And it turns out land WAS available at Arkansas. Who knew?

Second, all the discussions about lower recruiting strength chapters and relative success in rush has me thinking
1-alumnae chapters and alumnae panhellenics should be doing a better job at educating rushees (I am sticking with my boycott of PNM and new member) about RFM, Quota additions and SIP. They can do a lot to help the members and the rushees understand the process.
2-I think the highly competitive schools HAVE gotten more parity, as seen through the continued wild expansion happening nationwide. At Iowa, for instance, RFM made everything worse in the short term, but as the rushees have discovered that they are actually in a competitive rush, they are more accepting of the lower tier chapters, and parity is happening there, just like at so many other schools. Also, the tiers seem to be changing, which is an unexpected consequence of girls a couple years ago sucking it up and accepting the bid they got. They aren't expanding at Iowa yet, but as I've mentioned, I think they are a year or 2 from ready.
3-I think RFM is great, but I do really like the idea of allowing a girl to cut A chapter, and maybe that's at each round of rush. I don't think it's a wise thing to do from the rushee's perspective, but if she feels like she has more say in the process, maybe she'll be happier with what she's left with at the end. I don't think that should change the QA rules, however. Cut a chapter if you want, but it kills your chance to be a QA. I am picturing the ranking form saying list your top 10 chapters and rank the final 4. Then at the 4th slot the girl can choose to actually CUT this chapter, and she has to sign a MRABA-type statement that she understands that by cutting a chapter, she surrenders her ability to be a Quota Addition at bid matching and that she severely limits her chances of finding a sorority match. But hey, if you hate em that much, go for it.
4-I still say a rushee should be more calculating in her rankings, keeping a lower tier chapter in the hunt and dropping a top tier chapter that she's assuming she'll like better later because everyone else does. While cuts hurt at every round of the game, playing it with the big picture in mind could keep the middle-prestige rushee in a better position through the process.