Quota Additions at Super Competitive Schools

[Barbie's_Rush]

I had this response all typed out on the previous thread and presto! It came back as locked when I went to post. I think it's important to help both PNMs at super competitive schools as well as GC members who don't have personal experience with those types of recruitments to see the flip side of RFM in those situations.

Overall, I think the system works or at least certainly works much better than it did in previous eras. I do think that one of the situations where it doesn't always work so well is on those old established campuses like mine where the pecking system has been in effect for generations. There's one chapter that has always struggled, and before RFM would hand out maybe a third of the bids the other chapters could. But at least most of those bids were accepted and were girls who were truly interested in Awkward Alpha. They COBed but remained a significantly smaller chapter.

Now with RFM, that same chapter will continue to appear on the invite lists of PNMs who would rather die a thousand deaths than pledge Awkward Alpha. It appears round after round and once pref comes around, the PNMs have invites to Popular Pi, Super Sigma and Awkward Alpha. They are told they have to attend the Awkward Alpha party but really don't believe they could ever get a bid from them because they have the two "good" options left. And when they go to rank, they are pressured to rank all three due to the dangling carrot of QAs and guaranteed placement. I think PNMs are generally led to assume that listing all chapters will increase their odds with the chapters they want but not the one they don't. (We have certainly seen many cases of this on GC too!)

So on bid day Awkward Alpha now makes quota plus with a bunch of new members who would rather not be Greek than commit social suicide by joining that chapter. Panhellenic and the NPC can pat themselves on the back for a job well done. EVERYONE MADE QUOTA! But what happens behind the scenes and is never mentioned is that only half of those new members show up to bid day, and after a few weeks of seeing what it really means to be an Awkward Alpha in the university caste system, only half of those who show up to bid day end up sticking it out until initiation. So Awkward Alpha ends up with the same (and sometimes even fewer) number of new members as they would have using the old system plus those new members get to deal with a bunch of unhappy pledge sisters with bad attitudes and the constant news of who has dropped this week. Awkward Alpha continues to COB now, and does better with that as they always did before RFM, but always remains well below total.

I know it's a difficult concept for those at schools that have more fluid "caste systems" where a few good or bad classes can make a huge difference in the hiearchy. Honestly, I wish it were a matter of Awkward Alpha getting a few classes full of Perfect Pollys who stuck it out so they could no longer be that house, but when you are dealing with big monolithic systems, it's naive to believe that we can manipulate social change with a process.

I do think RFM really does help the "mid" to "upper lower" tiered chapters attract and retain members. These chapters get a second chance to impress women who would have dropped them earlier in recruitment before RFM came to be. But every time recruitment results are posted here and I see "OMG YAY ICKY IOTA GOT ELEVENTY BAJILLION IN QUOTA ADDITIONS AT SEC SUPER SCHOOL! YAY RFM!" I sort of cringe because I know what is also going on behind those numbers.

I don't know if there is a solution. Even if you impress upon the PNMs that they really really really can get a bid from the chapter they don't want if they list them on their pref card, they're still only going to believe they will get those other chapters. Because they are certain that anyone can see they're Popular Pi and Super Sigma material and the fact that they had to attend that Awkward Alpha party was only a fluke. They only see and hear what they want to believe. It's the human condition.

[carnation]

At many schools lately, the difference between the number pledged and the number initiated in many chapters is significantly different due to the issues you discussed. Not only that but more 'crap out', as a colleague likes to say, by the end of the year.

We know so many girls who've gotten their third choices in rush...third choices that were a real stretch for them.

[KSUViolet06]

I was just discussing this.

The difference between #1 and #2 may not be a stretch. I'd say that many times, PNMs have similar feelings about their 1 and 2 choices. The 3rd, not so much.

At some of the more competitive schools, #3 is the group that you HAVE to attend, but don't actually believe you'll get so it doesn't matter that you listed them.

Unfortunately, bigger schools have too many chapters to go from 3 party prefs to 2 like some smaller systems have. I don't even really know if that would solve the issue.

[Drolefille]

Isn't it arguable though that the less popular chapters would be doing just as poorly, if not worse without RFM since they never would have gotten the new members in the first place otherwise? Obviously it's not a perfect solution - and honestly, what will be if campus culture has solidified social tiers that just will not be moved no matter what. So overall we're still helping chapters with this method - and it gives the least popular chapters a chance to convince their new members that they have an awesome sisterhood too. Because they do, social stratifications or not.

[DaffyKD]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I was just discussing this.

The difference between #1 and #2 may not be a stretch. I'd say that many times, PNMs have similar feelings about their 1 and 2 choices. The 3rd, not so much.

At some of the more competitive schools, #3 is the group that you HAVE to attend, but don't actually believe you'll get so it doesn't matter that you listed them.

Unfortunately, bigger schools have too many chapters to go from 3 party prefs to 2 like some smaller systems have. I don't even really know if that would solve the issue.

Once upon a time when I went through rush (dating myself) We had pre-preference in which you went to 3 houses and then went down to only 2 for preference. Wonder if that would help to eliminate the problem of PNM's getting their 3rd choice and being told they MUST rank all three houses.

DaffyKD

[carnation]

I feel sorry for the chapters that have to do the convincing job, often dealing with a combination of happy girls, stunned girls, crying girls, and the realization that a large number of NMs never showed up for Bid Day. It's supposed to be such a happy time and I have no clue, even though I've observed it on several campuses, how they handle all this at once while trying to celebrate their new members.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Isn't it arguable though that the less popular chapters would be doing just as poorly, if not worse without RFM since they never would have gotten the new members in the first place otherwise? Obviously it's not a perfect solution - and honestly, what will be if campus culture has solidified social tiers that just will not be moved no matter what. So overall we're still helping chapters with this method - and it gives the least popular chapters a chance to convince their new members that they have an awesome sisterhood too. Because they do, social stratifications or not.

How well this works at bigger schools I don't know, but rather than concentrating on QAs the day of bid day, such chapters might be better served to have parties and give out open bids a few days after when everyone's had the time to realize that life really doesn't go on when your favorite sorority doesn't bid you. And to realize that the girls they talked to at Icky Iota weren't as icky as they thought.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by carnation

I feel sorry for the chapters that have to do the convincing job, often dealing with a combination of happy girls, stunned girls, crying girls, and the realization that a large number of NMs never showed up for Bid Day. It's supposed to be such a happy time and I have no clue, even though I've observed it on several campuses, how they handle all this at once while trying to celebrate their new members.

I've seen it, and it relies a lot on older members who don't get hung up on the ego who can split off and talk to the upset NMs. But it's that or not have any chance to convince at all.

[GammaPhi88]

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

So on bid day Awkward Alpha now makes quota plus with a bunch of new members who would rather not be Greek than commit social suicide by joining that chapter. Panhellenic and the NPC can pat themselves on the back for a job well done. EVERYONE MADE QUOTA! But what happens behind the scenes and is never mentioned is that only half of those new members show up to bid day, and after a few weeks of seeing what it really means to be an Awkward Alpha in the university caste system, only half of those who show up to bid day end up sticking it out until initiation. So Awkward Alpha ends up with the same (and sometimes even fewer) number of new members as they would have using the old system plus those new members get to deal with a bunch of unhappy pledge sisters with bad attitudes and the constant news of who has dropped this week. Awkward Alpha continues to COB now, and does better with that as they always did before RFM, but always remains well below total.

I think this every time that someone mentions that EVERY CHAPTER MADE QUOTA at some school, because this exact scenario replays itself year after year at one particular chapter at my own school, which is only a mildly competitive northern school where recommendations are few and far between. I feel that in some ways, the RFM system where PNMs see the "Awkward Alpha" back on their schedule day after day when they've tried to cut them after each round garners actually makes the situation worse. The PNM feels increasing frustration towards the chapter for keeping them on; thus, the PNM is unlikely to warm up towards the chapter as recruitment wears on.

The above scenario may be the cause of PNMs being rude to one particular chapter. My own campus's Panhellenic instituted a rule where if you are very rude you can be kicked out of recruitment in entirety, but that still only does so much. Is there a solution? I'm honestly unsure. But I will say that it rankles me when I hear that because of RFM, ALL CHAPTERS MAKE QUOTA INCLUDING THE CONSTANTLY STRUGGLING ONE. While RFM did work for me, as I don't think I would have given my own "mid-tier" chapter (though I obviously don't look at my own chapter as mid-tier...I'm just illustrating campus sentiment) a shot without it. But my chapter is not the one struggling constantly. I am interested to see what others think about this.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

How well this works at bigger schools I don't know, but rather than concentrating on QAs the day of bid day, such chapters might be better served to have parties and give out open bids a few days after when everyone's had the time to realize that life really doesn't go on when your favorite sorority doesn't bid you. And to realize that the girls they talked to at Icky Iota weren't as icky as they thought.

I agree, I don't think most chapters complain about QAs.

[33girl]

It's hard to know where to draw the line between "giving a chapter a chance" and "pushing it down throats." So,so, so much depends on the individual.

As has been said on here before, if women don't keep truly open minds and look past things like size (chapter's and individual's), it's hard to feel too sorry for them. Some chapters can put it all out on the table, and say "yeah, we have 50 members and everyone else has 130. So effing what, we are awesome." But that's the exception rather than norm. If you've suffered through years of pressure from your HQ, your school, and sometimes your alumnae regarding numbers, it just gets to the point where you're beat down and rush is more holding your breath till it's over (and you fail again, whatever, at least it's over) than a happy time to welcome new sisters to be.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by 33girl

How well this works at bigger schools I don't know, but rather than concentrating on QAs the day of bid day, such chapters might be better served to have parties and give out open bids a few days after when everyone's had the time to realize that life really doesn't go on when your favorite sorority doesn't bid you. And to realize that the girls they talked to at Icky Iota weren't as icky as they thought.

typically, quota additions go to chapters who do not need to cob, and the chapters who do cob do begin cob events as soon as they catch their breath and get organized.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

typically, quota additions go to chapters who do not need to cob, and the chapters who do cob do begin cob events as soon as they catch their breath and get organized.

Yep, and whether they do so exhausted and worn down by years of expectations from HQ or energized and feeling awesome depends on them.

[carnation]

We've talked on GC about forced prefs. These days, prefs are rarely forced but the PNMs have that carrot of QAs if they maximize their options. Still, I think that many, many girls are going to some pref parties unwillingly and that could account for the flood of 'rude PNM' stories that we've gotten on the Weird Rush Stories thread (maybe if I flip off the undesirable group, they'll cut me!")

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by carnation

We've talked on GC about forced prefs. These days, prefs are rarely forced but the PNMs have that carrot of QAs if they maximize their options. Still, I think that many, many girls are going to some pref parties unwillingly and that could account for the flood of 'rude PNM' stories that we've gotten on the Weird Rush Stories thread (maybe if I flip off the undesirable group, they'll cut me!")

yes, they do dangle the quota addition carrot and the sip kiss of death rumor, too.

let's face it, if someone's heart is set on a bmw, but they end up with a pacer, some will end up making the best of things and appreciating the fact that they have a car, while others would rather walk than be seen in a pacer.