Quota Additions at Super Competitive Schools

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

This. Even "top tier" chapters who pride themselves on their exclusivity must be prepared to welcome every single PNM they invite to Pref as their new sister. This really needs to be emphasized to all members, no matter where their chapter happens to be in the pecking order on their campus.

I've seen this come in more often when "Flex" lists are used. I think it's stupid to be this picky, but I've seen it happen.

[angels&angles]

As a "less strong recruiting chapter," (LSRC) I've seen members get upset over QAs, thinking it meant that they had to go all the way to the bottom of the bid list. As a LSRC, actives often have to make choices about "lesser of two evil" PNMs. If you've never made quota, and suddenly you make quota plus, but you see some of your lesser-loved PNMs at bid night (and not some of the ones you've loved), and no one ever explained QAs to you (your rush crush who swore up and down that she wanted to join your chapter, may have been in the MIDDLE of your bid list), it seems like the system is working against you. BECAUSE you can't make many cuts, QAs seem like a punishment.

I will add that many of these NMs have become valued actives, but several were nothing but trouble as long as they were around. Like any NM class, I guess.

[AXOrushadvisor]

Originally Posted by ADqtPiMel

I do too. Why are you inviting women to your pref parties who you don't want, then? The blessing of being a strong recruiting chapter is that you don't have to invite that many women to pref round.

Because with RFM you have to invite a certain number whether you love them or not no choice. Most of the women they do want, but there are always 1 or 2 that do the slide on in.

[ADqtPiMel]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

And, if your recruitment chair and advisors are doing their job, no one else should know WHERE on a bidlist specific people are, or who was a QA.

Right. As soon as we get our list of new members, the bid list goes to me (recruitment advisor) and I keep it for posterity -- but no one else gets a copy, and the recruitment chairs know not to reveal where anyone was on the bid list. It would be horrible if the chapter knew who the QAs were!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

Because with RFM you have to invite a certain number whether you love them or not no choice. Most of the women they do want, but there are always 1 or 2 that do the slide on in.

No you don't. You're recommended not to cut past a certain number, or at all, but you can always cut more than that.

[AXOrushadvisor]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

This. The rule of pref is you don't invite people you don't want on your bidlist to pref.

And, if your recruitment chair and advisors are doing their job, no one else should know WHERE on a bidlist specific people are, or who was a QA. Snap bids are the only type of bids given in formal recruitment where the NM might stand out simply because she arrived later or wasn't at bid day festivities. (And then only in cases where snap bids aren't all handled earlier, although sometimes people are harder to get a hold of for snap bids.)

But QAs should show up with the rest of the class and no one should know whether Suzy or Annie or Becca was on the first bidlist or was the last QA.

Our women have no idea who falls where just that there might be 1 or 2 women who they are not overly fond of. I know that if QA was not done they would not be in the Chapter, but they only have an idea that they were the QA's. The QA's come on the bid list with no special recognition just listed with all the other women.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

Our women have no idea who falls where just that there might be 1 or 2 women who they are not overly fond of. I know that if QA was not done they would not be in the Chapter, but they only have an idea that they were the QA's. The QA's come on the bid list with no special recognition just listed with all the other women.

Right but that's different than looking down on QAs for being QAs which is what you said. "They're not a blessing"

Hell yes they are. They're on your bid list so you wanted them AND you got them.

[ADqtPiMel]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

No you don't. You're recommended not to cut past a certain number, or at all, but you can always cut more than that.

Agreed. You don't HAVE to comply exactly with the Panhellenic-supplied carry figure. If I had to choose between inviting a woman to pref who we wouldn't be thrilled to offer a bid and following the carry figures to a T, I'd choose dropping an extra woman.

[ta kala]

Originally Posted by ADqtPiMel

Agreed. You don't HAVE to comply exactly with the Panhellenic-supplied carry figure. If I had to choose between inviting a woman to pref who we wouldn't be thrilled to offer a bid and following the carry figures to a T, I'd choose dropping an extra woman.

Depending on the expectations from their (inter)national organization, chapters are "required" to follow the numbers to a T - and for chapters recommended to invite "all in pool" or close to that number, they often invite back women who they don't want, but are not in a position to be picky if the expectation is to "play the game" to make quota/total. They then get women they don't want (who may or may not want them) and they get stuck in a cycle of admitting women who don't meet their membership criteria and women who won't help a struggling chapter change.

And I realize each organization is different and has different policies, philosophies, etc. This is my own personal opinion about our formal recruitment process. For every member who might hold a chapter back, there is an equally awesome woman who will be the next great leader. It's such a tricky balancing act.

[Drolefille]

^^ Even though we were "expected" to make quota, we were not "required" to keep the recommended amount exactly. But, if it's an issue of I/NHQ standards then they're the ones falling into the "BID EVERYONE" trap, not the chapters. That's a fault of the HQ, not the RFM.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

^^ Even though we were "expected" to make quota, we were not "required" to keep the recommended amount exactly. But, if it's an issue of I/NHQ standards then they're the ones falling into the "BID EVERYONE" trap, not the chapters. That's a fault of the HQ, not the RFM.

And top tier chapters at competitive schools also know that if they do happen to fall slightly short of quota because they're only inviting those they really want to Pref, there's a very good pool of PNMs who did not attend any Pref parties at all because they dropped somewhere in the process. You can have some snap bids issued to quality girls before the ink is dry on all the bid cards. One top chapter at my school has elevated this to an art form.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ta kala

Depending on the expectations from their (inter)national organization, chapters are "required" to follow the numbers to a T - and for chapters recommended to invite "all in pool" or close to that number, they often invite back women who they don't want, but are not in a position to be picky if the expectation is to "play the game" to make quota/total. They then get women they don't want (who may or may not want them) and they get stuck in a cycle of admitting women who don't meet their membership criteria and women who won't help a struggling chapter change.

And I realize each organization is different and has different policies, philosophies, etc. This is my own personal opinion about our formal recruitment process. For every member who might hold a chapter back, there is an equally awesome woman who will be the next great leader. It's such a tricky balancing act.

I know EXACTLY what you're talking about, and I bet we all have a line or two in our recruitment policies that says essentially the same thing. I find it ridiculous, though, because usually, the chapters that cut HARD and perhaps cut for more shallow reasons are the ones who have no problem retaining PNMs from round to round. The struggling chapters are usually the ones who are more open - in other words, you REALLY have to be a piece of work to get cut from there - and telling that chapter that they have to invite back a girl who got them to that point and possibly even bid her, does NOT help the chapter to get stronger. It just kills it more quickly.

We say over and over to NMs that sisterhood doesn't happen overnight, that the best years are often as an alum, etc etc - in effect, that it TAKES TIME and that you can't force it. Why does that go out the window when it comes to chapters in general - especially if a costly house isn't involved?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I know EXACTLY what you're talking about, and I bet we all have a line or two in our recruitment policies that says essentially the same thing.

I don't know that it's so common as you think, although none of us can probably actually answer that question for each other.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

Our women have no idea who falls where just that there might be 1 or 2 women who they are not overly fond of. I know that if QA was not done they would not be in the Chapter, but they only have an idea that they were the QA's. The QA's come on the bid list with no special recognition just listed with all the other women.

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around a high recruiting strength chapter not loving everyone on their bid list, and most likely plenty more that they had to cut due to RFM. Unless there's drama on an individual level. Even then, usually the problems high recruiting strength chapters have is separating good from great, especially after just one round, so I'd think that even if there was drama between a member and a PNM, she'd be axed ASAP. You can to search for reasons to cut women. High recruiting strength chapters have to make the biggest cuts, and are drawing from the top of the pile.

[ADqtPiMel]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around a high recruiting strength chapter not loving everyone on their bid list, and most likely plenty more that they had to cut due to RFM. Unless there's drama on an individual level. Even then, usually the problems high recruiting strength chapters have is separating good from great, especially after just one round, so I'd think that even if there was drama between a member and a PNM, she'd be axed ASAP. You can to search for reasons to cut women. High recruiting strength chapters have to make the biggest cuts, and are drawing from the top of the pile.

Seriously. The chapter I advise would typically love to offer a bid to most of the PNMs who attend our round BEFORE pref. It's incredibly difficult to cut down to the number we invite back for pref. I just can't fathom a "strong recruiting" chapter having women at pref that they don't like.