Question about lavaliering...

tenor1255 · #1 04-02-2008, 03:29 AM

Hello!

I am a senior, about to graduate. I am also gay. I want to lavalier my best friend, a female, because she would be the girl that I would spend the rest of my life with if I were heterosexual. I think this may fly in the face of tradition, but my case isn't exactly something that the rules apply to. I wanted to get some opinions, and didn't want to talk to my own brothers until I knew more.

Thanks Brothers
In ZAX

GammaZeta · #2 04-02-2008, 02:07 PM

I ain't touching this topic with a ten foot pole!

Tom Earp · #3 04-02-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenor1255

Hello!

I am a senior, about to graduate. I am also gay. I want to lavalier my best friend, a female, because she would be the girl that I would spend the rest of my life with if I were heterosexual. I think this may fly in the face of tradition, but my case isn't exactly something that the rules apply to. I wanted to get some opinions, and didn't want to talk to my own brothers until I knew more.

Thanks Brothers
In ZAX

Agree with GammaZeta and ? well I am at a lose for words!

Don't!

nittanyalum · #4 04-02-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenor1255

Hello!

I am a senior, about to graduate. I am also gay. I want to lavalier my best friend, a female, because she would be the girl that I would spend the rest of my life with if I were heterosexual. I think this may fly in the face of tradition, but my case isn't exactly something that the rules apply to. I wanted to get some opinions, and didn't want to talk to my own brothers until I knew more.

Thanks Brothers
In ZAX

Ok, well I'll give a girl's opinion... on the female side "getting lavaliered" was a big deal (at least for my chapter/when I was in school) because it meant you were 'serious' with your boyfriend AND he acknowledged it. I think your intent is really sweet, you're almost making it a "friendship lavalier", but yeah, that doesn't really "fit" with the usual greek org. traditions. Is your goal to do it before school is over so you go through the regular fraternity traditions when a guy gives a girl his lavaliere? And is she in a sorority, so are you hoping she'll get a candlelighting? Because I don't really think that should be your goal here and I wouldn't count on the orgs seeing it that way either. Could you wait until after graduation and give it to her as just a thanks/i love you, friend, gift? Once you're out of school some of the boyfriend-to-girlfriend significance might be lessened.

LXA grits · #5 04-04-2008, 02:10 PM

In my humble opinion, I think that a lavalier would be the wrong way to go. Instead, I think a "Friendship Pin" would be more appropriate. As afar as I know, a lavalier isn't an official recognition symbol of the fraternity. A far better choice for you to present your female friend with, would be the piece fo jewelry found here.

(or cheaper here.)

The "goal" that a lot of women seek in our jewelry (if I can be so modest for our bond), is to obtain an official brotherhood badge. Short of proposing to this girl, she can't get one of these from you. Instead, here's an explanation of the badge that would be much more appropriate for you to give her:

The Friendship Badge

The cross and crescent with shield bearing the Greek letters pin was originally designed to be worn by girlfriends of members when the relationship had not yet reached the state of engagement or marriage. Today, the pin also is worn by members who have not purchased a badge, or by members who prefer its design.

and (another explanation from another website)

The Friendship Badge, created by Jack Mason following controversy over whether sisters, housemothers, and steady girlfriends could wear the badge, is a crucicrescent with a shield superimposed and the letters of the Fraternity written onto it. Created by Balfour, it “carries no promise of protection from the Fraternity, and is simply a casual compliment. It does not require the salute of removing one’s hat…”

So, it's a bit more casual than the badge you give to a wife, but it still symbolizes your affection to your female friend. I'm sure she would appreciate this badge a great deal. Since I have not proposed to my girlfriend (yet?), I have not given her a badge. Instead, I gave her the friendship pin, and she wears it proudly. The lavalier can come later...like I said, it's not an official LCA piece, so it doesn't carry as much value as the previously discussed ones.

Good luck!

Yours in Z A X ,

GammaZeta · #6 04-04-2008, 05:32 PM

Couldn't you just lavalier the special man in your life or your boyfriend?

JonoBN41 · #7 04-04-2008, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Couldn't you just lavalier the special man in your life or your boyfriend?

That was not his question.

Chis Hall took the time to offer excellent and thoughtful advice.

john1082 · #8 04-04-2008, 06:40 PM

I'm not aware of this question being asked in the past and I don't know how well we can adapt / react to it. I have attended functions where a Brother brought his partner and they were well received by the active chapter. Some of the alumni had a tougher time with it; I was merely confused as I was seated next to the partner and mistook him for a Brother! I know that we have gay Brothers and I've no issue with that.

As far as a lavaliere or pin goes I suppose that I'd look to the C&SC and see what it says there. Guidance might also be found in the Paed. I would, however, have to draw the line at presenting a badge. We can readily tell that if a woman is wearing a badge she is either the mother, sister, fiance or wife of a Brother. If a man were to wear the badge then we would all look at him as a Brother - when in reality he would be occupying the place of a spouse / fiance in a relationship.

Thus you can see the dilemma here. I am certain that this was never anticipated in years past. Perhaps it bears some discussion off-line at GA in Phoenix.

GammaZeta · #9 04-04-2008, 09:26 PM

I'd personally save it for someone who meant something more than just a really good friend, be it either sex.

I'm not sure what the customs are, who buys the engagement ring, etc., but maybe you could give it to a partner that you mean to spend the rest of your life with?

pyro103 · #10 04-16-2008, 03:49 PM

I belive the friendship pin is better btu as to the question about laveliering the man in your life can you lavelier a guy? A girl we lavelier could not join our Fraternity but a guy is a very interesting question.
In ZAX

wil919 · #11 05-19-2008, 12:17 AM

I recently lavaliered my girlfriend of four years, and I sought out some advice from many brothers, including our ELC who happened to be in town at the time. There really is no tradition around lavaliering, and I did alot of research on the subject only to come up empty handed.

In the eyes of the fraternity, from what I understand, it's not really considered an "Official" piece of jewelry, so I don't think there are any rules governing anything about lavaliering. However, in my chapter, a lavalier hadn't been given in over 5-6 years, and that brother was "slopped" for it... I'll leave it up to your imagination.

I wanted to make the lavaliering a big deal, so I informed the brotherhood about it at our chapter meeting, and it was met with, in my opinion, good response, mainly because I had approached them first about it. I didn't want the chapter to feel as if I had lied to them or been trying to keep it secret, especially because it is "our" letters that she would be wearing.

As for giving a lavalier to a man, I only recommend it if your are TRULY serious about him. If you plan on being together with him for a very long time, i.e. life partners, I would maybe consider it then...

JonoBN41 · #12 05-19-2008, 06:48 PM

The fact that the OP (original poster) is gay is of no consequence in this situation, no matter how many people want to focus on that aspect. He could could just as well be a straight guy who likes a certain girl but is not in love with her.

My suggestion would be to simply give her a lavalier without actually "lavaliering" her. Just present it to her in a box and she can wear it.

Tom Earp · #13 05-20-2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonoBN41

The fact that the OP (original poster) is gay is of no consequence in this situation, no matter how many people want to focus on that aspect. He could could just as well be a straight guy who likes a certain girl but is not in love with her.

My suggestion would be to simply give her a lavalier without actually "lavaliering" her. Just present it to her in a box and she can wear it.

I am not sure but trying to remember for the old days, a Lavalier was given to the girl you were dating as in pre-engagement for marriage.

Giving a Lavalier also means that person was under the protection of the Brothers of LXA or at least that zeta.

JonoBN41 · #14 05-20-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

I am not sure but trying to remember for the old days, a Lavalier was given to the girl you were dating as in pre-engagement for marriage.

Okay. And what happens with the lavalier if it doesn't work out? Does she give it back or can she still wear it?

jlm502 · #15 10-27-2009, 08:32 PM

I think that's an awesome idea. So far greek traditions haven't caught up with "modern" ideals of love and commitment. It's not your fault you can't lav a man you love. But, being a gay man's best friend, I know that he would be nothing without me. He came out and I was there. He was experimental and I was there. He met his first boyfriend and I was there. It's quite a job being the best bitch of a gay man, and I think she deserves it ONLY if she is enthusiastic about your fraternity. I know that I am the Sig Chi sweetheart and I LOVE those boys to death and everything that I'm allowed to know about their fraternity, therefore the idea of me being lavaliered (though I'm sure my boyfriend is still being slow and hasn't even thought of it) is definitely going to be fine with the rest of the brothers. If she's just your best friend and none of your brothers know her, idk if it would really be relevent to lavalier her.

Ok. That's all I have. Good luck!