How do you feel about high school and misc. step teams doing NPHC steps!

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

You mean from the Outkast song?

That existed waaaayyyyy before Outkast. It was even used in School Daze.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

That existed waaaayyyyy before Outkast. It was even used in School Daze.

The first thing I thought of was Vanilla Ice's "Ice Ice Baby," since the lyrics are in there word-for-word at the end

[aurorablue]

Vanilla Ice stole that line from Alpha Phi Alpha when he recorded that record back in the 80's. The Alphas took him to court over it too and I think they won since all of Alpha's traditional chants are copyrighted. The "ICE COLD" chant is very dear to them and has a significant meaning for the Alphas; it actually tells a story of their founding. That's why I just hate to hear people just mimic them like that, like it's a joke. Most of the NPHC traditional chants have historical and significant value to the members.

Peace.
Aurorablue, SGRho, Spr. 93

[Tom Earp]

Is copying even at that level a form of admiration or just doing it because Black GLOs do it? Maybe that is the same thing?

[aurorablue]

If you're refering to what Vanilla Ice did, you can't expect to copy from a prominent organization and not ask them for permission first. It's just like when these artists sample other artists. They have to ask for permission or they can be sued by the original artist or writer. And then Vanilla Ice went on to make mad money off of that record but from what I understand the Alphas won some of that money in a lawsuit.

As for the high school and misc. step teams doing NPHC steps, there's just no reason for it in my opinion. New steps get made up all the time and what really bugs me is that most of these people don't know whose steps they're doing, the history behind the NPHC orgs, or the history and significance of the art of stepping. For some in NPHCs, stepping is no big deal, but for others it's a huge deal and they regard stepping as one of their beloved traditions and signature steps have been with these orgs for many many years.

Peace.
Aurorablue, SGRho, Spr. 93

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by aurorablue

If you're refering to what Vanilla Ice did, you can't expect to copy from a prominent organization and not ask them for permission first. It's just like when these artists sample other artists. They have to ask for permission or they can be sued by the original artist or writer. And then Vanilla Ice went on to make mad money off of that record but from what I understand the Alphas won some of that money in a lawsuit.

As for the high school and misc. step teams doing NPHC steps, there's just no reason for it in my opinion. New steps get made up all the time and what really bugs me is that most of these people don't know whose steps they're doing, the history behind the NPHC orgs, or the history and significance of the art of stepping. For some in NPHCs, stepping is no big deal, but for others it's a huge deal and they regard stepping as one of their beloved traditions and signature steps have been with these orgs for many many years.

Peace.
Aurorablue, SGRho, Spr. 93

Come on Aurora. I don't think the Ice Cold reference for Alpha has been around since its inception. In fact I never heard it while in school or for a long time afterwards. I would guess it is a late 80s, 90s thing. But I am sure the Alphas will correct me if I am wrong. That is not to say that when it started it wasn't based on something historical. But when Vanilla Ice did it I bet it's because he (or his people) heard it somewhere and thought it was cool--not having any idea about the Alphas or what it meant to them.

The same with hand signs and calls. They were not there in the 60s and 70s.

As for stepping, for a long time what was called stepping is not what is done today, especially for the sororities who did "performances" rather than step shows. Back then stepping was a Chicago/St.Louis dance also know as the bop. - LOL.

Sororities did dance routines to songs that usually were based on the popular songs at the time, substituting the name of the org in the lyrics. That's why what are now called step mistresses were called song mistresses back in the day. I was such in my chapter--I made up dance routines to go with songs that we sang. They best performers were the ones with the best singers and dancers.

The frats did do a milder version of what is stepping today and both the Sigmas and the Kappas used canes--and nothing was spelled with a "K".

So I say all of this to say, the NPHC has changed over the years and it still tickles me when I here NPHCers talk about the historical value and importance of stepping. Cuz, it just wasn't so. It was pure entertainment.

Just think about it. When our sororities were founded it wasn't even appropriate for "ladies" to go without white gloves, much less wear pants and dance with abondonment. And gentlemen carried canes as a sign of distinction and class.

Now I will not dispute that when stepping became really popular it wasn't based on African movements, because it did seem to grow out of the Pan-African awareness of the 70s.

This is also why so many people are upset about Stomp The Yard, because it makes something that was NEVER part of our validation seem to be so.

Oh and by the way, "signature steps" have changed over the years, too. And it's time for some of them to change again, because they have lost their entertainment value, imo.

The bottom line is the NPHC orgs have not patented or trademark any "steps" and would be hard pressed to do so. Just like new dances are versions of old dances, the same with stepping. You say the Alphas haved tm'd Ice Cold and I cannot dispute that, but I wonder when that was. Because as far as I know, Jerry Butler was the original Ice Man Cometh - LOL.

[blkwebman1919]

I'm not absolutely sure about this, but I remember hearing back then that Vanilla Ice was adopted and his stepbrother (adopted brother?) was an Alpha, so that's where he got the idea to use the Alpha chant. But that could have just been a rumor flying around in the record industry at that time.

[DSTKellie]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Come on Aurora. I don't think the Ice Cold reference for Alpha has been around since its inception. In fact I never heard it while in school or for a long time afterwards. I would guess it is a late 80s, 90s thing. But I am sure the Alphas will correct me if I am wrong. That is not to say that when it started it wasn't based on something historical. But when Vanilla Ice did it I bet it's because he (or his people) heard it somewhere and thought it was cool--not having any idea about the Alphas or what it meant to them.

The same with hand signs and calls. They were not there in the 60s and 70s.

As for stepping, for a long time what was called stepping is not what is done today, especially for the sororities who did "performances" rather than step shows. Back then stepping was a Chicago/St.Louis dance also know as the bop. - LOL.

Sororities did dance routines to songs that usually were based on the popular songs at the time, substituting the name of the org in the lyrics. That's why what are now called step mistresses were called song mistresses back in the day. I was such in my chapter--I made up dance routines to go with songs that we sang. They best performers were the ones with the best singers and dancers.

The frats did do a milder version of what is stepping today and both the Sigmas and the Kappas used canes--and nothing was spelled with a "K".

So I say all of this to say, the NPHC has changed over the years and it still tickles me when I here NPHCers talk about the historical value and importance of stepping. Cuz, it just wasn't so. It was pure entertainment.

Just think about it. When our sororities were founded it wasn't even appropriate for "ladies" to go without white gloves, much less wear pants and dance with abondonment. And gentlemen carried canes as a sign of distinction and class.

Now I will not dispute that when stepping became really popular it wasn't based on African movements, because it did seem to grow out of the Pan-African awareness of the 70s.

This is also why so many people are upset about Stomp The Yard, because it makes something that was NEVER part of our validation seem to be so.

Oh and by the way, "signature steps" have changed over the years, too. And it's time for some of them to change again, because they have lost their entertainment value, imo.

The bottom line is the NPHC orgs have not patented or trademark any "steps" and would be hard pressed to do so. Just like new dances are versions of old dances, the same with stepping. You say the Alphas haved tm'd Ice Cold and I cannot dispute that, but I wonder when that was. Because as far as I know, Jerry Butler was the original Ice Man Cometh - LOL.

Great insight and information Soror!

I remember hearing similar information from my Great Aunt who pledge Zeta Phi Beta in 1959. She never stepped in her undergrad years and ladies had to dress up on the yard and in the classroom. The Sigmas were know for their stepping but they stepped in suits, dress shoes with their cane. The stepping was definitely different than the high jumping, hopping, dancing, bumping and grinding I've seen at these step shows.

I personally don't get offended when I see high school students stepping. They are children and they are entertaining, and most steps were derived from African traditions anyway. Now, I would be upset if they were singing hymns, doing chants, calls and handsigns that were derived from certained organizations because that would definitely cause some issues.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by aurorablue

Vanilla Ice stole that line from Alpha Phi Alpha when he recorded that record back in the 80's. The Alphas took him to court over it too and I think they won since all of Alpha's traditional chants are copyrighted. The "ICE COLD" chant is very dear to them and has a significant meaning for the Alphas; it actually tells a story of their founding. That's why I just hate to hear people just mimic them like that, like it's a joke. Most of the NPHC traditional chants have historical and significant value to the members.

Thanks, aurorablue...I had no idea!

[aurorablue]

To Ladygreek,

I never said that the "ICE COLD" chant has been with Alpha since their inception but it is dear to them. Also you say that things in the NPHC orgs have changed over the years and yet you can't understand why newer members (80's, 90's, present) value stepping. Maybe it's because it's their thing and they like to do it. Possibly because it encourages unity, discipline, creativity, teamwork, etc. etc. and I was a stepmistress myself so I know. Also I can just tell that you and I probably have some very different views about "sorority," intake vs. pledging (not hazing), etc. etc. and probably value different things...and that's quite alright. I should also point out that while we are the same, the different NPHC orgs are also different and have different history and values. What you value and hold dear may not be the same things that I value and hold dear or that our sorors value and hold dear. And no one is wrong, we're just different and have a right to different feelings and opinions. What we don't need to do is put eachother's values down and invalidate them.

To AXID670,

You're absolutely right, everything I found on the web about the Vanilla Ice/Alpha case talks about him being sued by a California undergrad chapter. Unfortunately I don't remember all the specifics, I only remember that it was a hot topic at the time and rumors were flying in every direction. But the bottom line is that it was an issue. If you'd really like to know the whole story, you will have to ask an Alpha about it (who was around at the time).

To blkwebman,

I heard that rumor as well.

Peace.
Aurorablue, SGRho, Spr. 93

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by aurorablue

To Ladygreek,

I never said that the "ICE COLD" chant has been with Alpha since their inception but it is dear to them. Also you say that things in the NPHC orgs have changed over the years and yet you can't understand why newer members (80's, 90's, present) value stepping. Maybe it's because it's their thing and they like to do it. Possibly because it encourages unity, discipline, creativity, teamwork, etc. etc. and I was a stepmistress myself so I know. Also I can just tell that you and I probably have some very different views about "sorority," intake vs. pledging (not hazing), etc. etc. and probably value different things...and that's quite alright. I should also point out that while we are the same, the different NPHC orgs are also different and have different history and values. What you value and hold dear may not be the same things that I value and hold dear or that our sorors value and hold dear. And no one is wrong, we're just different and have a right to different feelings and opinions. What we don't need to do is put eachother's values down and invalidate them.


Peace.
Aurorablue, SGRho, Spr. 93

What is interesting is how you interpreted what I said. Where did I put other's values down? My point was back to the original post about high schoolers and others stepping. And to that end I can't see where a HPHC org would value stepping so much that they would be against such an activity for youth, especially since it is touted as having African roots and encourages unity, discipline, creativity, and teamwork--all good attributes for youth leadership development.

BTW, community service also encourages unity, discipline, creativity and teamwork and it helps others in the process. So maybe our orgs do have different values.

The difference, at least for me, is that I value stepping as entertainment and not a validation of the purpose of my organization. If all of us never did another step show, but instead put that time and energy into planning and inplementing a program keeping our youth out of gangs, imagine what that would look like.

Again, I enjoy as step show as much as the next person, but it is not the be all and end all of MY org. We have bigger fish to fry.

[aurorablue]

To ladygreek,

This is my last post to you because I'm getting nowhere and you seem to like twisting my words. I never said or would ever say that stepping is a validation for the purpose of my sorority or for any of the NPHC orgs for that matter. How dare you imply that!!!!!! And I know a whole lot of DSTs that wouldn't appreciate you saying such a thing either. It sounds like you don't know too much about the other NPHC orgs, only your own which is really closed minded of you. But then maybe you didn't have the "undergrad experience," where on some campuses the NPHC orgs are very tight and learn a great deal about eachother and do community service together.

In my original post I say that I am not opposed to others stepping, especially if it keeps kids off the streets (read my original post again), but I present my reasons for why I don't like what's going on currently. And guess what? Those are MY opinions (not my sorority's) and I'm entitled to them.

As for community service, community service is ofcourse our top priority, my top priority; hence the SGRho motto "Greater Service, Greater Progress" and wherever Sigma is we are always commended for the amount of community service we do. So don't go there please!!! Do a little research into other NPHC orgs besides your own and you'll find this to be true for yourself. But just as community service is important, scholarship, sisterhood, and yes stepping can also be important (especially to undergrads) and needed to provide diversity in our activities.

As I said before this conversation is over between you and me. I have too much respect for DST and the other NPHC orgs to allow you to take me where I don't want to go...all because I have an opinion that is different from yours.

Peace.
Aurorablue, SGRho, Spr. 93

[DSTKellie]

Originally Posted by aurorablue

To ladygreek,

This is my last post to you because I'm getting nowhere and you seem to like twisting my words. I never said or would ever say that stepping is a validation for the purpose of my sorority or for any of the NPHC orgs for that matter. How dare you imply that!!!!!! And I know a whole lot of DSTs that wouldn't appreciate you saying such a thing either. It sounds like you don't know too much about the other NPHC orgs, only your own which is really closed minded of you.

Well I'm not one of them, I totally agree with everything LadyGreek was saying and I think you are twisting her words.

[BlueReign]

Originally Posted by aurorablue

To ladygreek,

This is my last post to you because I'm getting nowhere and you seem to like twisting my words. I never said or would ever say that stepping is a validation for the purpose of my sorority or for any of the NPHC orgs for that matter. How dare you imply that!!!!!! And I know a whole lot of DSTs that wouldn't appreciate you saying such a thing either. It sounds like you don't know too much about the other NPHC orgs, only your own which is really closed minded of you. But then maybe you didn't have the "undergrad experience," where on some campuses the NPHC orgs are very tight and learn a great deal about eachother and do community service together.

In my original post I say that I am not opposed to others stepping, especially if it keeps kids off the streets (read my original post again), but I present my reasons for why I don't like what's going on currently. And guess what? Those are MY opinions (not my sorority's) and I'm entitled to them.

As for community service, community service is ofcourse our top priority, my top priority; hence the SGRho motto "Greater Service, Greater Progress" and wherever Sigma is we are always commended for the amount of community service we do. So don't go there please!!! Do a little research into other NPHC orgs besides your own and you'll find this to be true for yourself. But just as community service is important, scholarship, sisterhood, and yes stepping can also be important (especially to undergrads) and needed to provide diversity in our activities.

As I said before this conversation is over between you and me. I have too much respect for DST and the other NPHC orgs to allow you to take me where I don't want to go...all because I have an opinion that is different from yours.

Peace.
Aurorablue, SGRho, Spr. 93

Dam! (I mean, please). That was a bit harsh considering you don't know LadyGreek and I know she didn't mean it like the way you interpreted it. Please take a step back, get to know this forum before you jump all out there like that.

And come over to the SGRho forum, introduce yourself and get to know your other Sorors here. Welcome to GC!

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by aurorablue

To ladygreek,

This is my last post to you because I'm getting nowhere and you seem to like twisting my words. I never said or would ever say that stepping is a validation for the purpose of my sorority or for any of the NPHC orgs for that matter. How dare you imply that!!!!!! And I know a whole lot of DSTs that wouldn't appreciate you saying such a thing either. It sounds like you don't know too much about the other NPHC orgs, only your own which is really closed minded of you. But then maybe you didn't have the "undergrad experience," where on some campuses the NPHC orgs are very tight and learn a great deal about eachother and do community service together.

In my original post I say that I am not opposed to others stepping, especially if it keeps kids off the streets (read my original post again), but I present my reasons for why I don't like what's going on currently. And guess what? Those are MY opinions (not my sorority's) and I'm entitled to them.

As for community service, community service is ofcourse our top priority, my top priority; hence the SGRho motto "Greater Service, Greater Progress" and wherever Sigma is we are always commended for the amount of community service we do. So don't go there please!!! Do a little research into other NPHC orgs besides your own and you'll find this to be true for yourself. But just as community service is important, scholarship, sisterhood, and yes stepping can also be important (especially to undergrads) and needed to provide diversity in our activities.

As I said before this conversation is over between you and me. I have too much respect for DST and the other NPHC orgs to allow you to take me where I don't want to go...all because I have an opinion that is different from yours.

Peace.
Aurorablue, SGRho, Spr. 93

You read a whole lot into my response and made some very bad assumptions, '93.