Racial Conflict

[gammagirl04]

I was approach by a prejudice African-American man today, and we talk about Greek life in general. He told me that Black Greek organizations should not allow other races to be members. I was very offended by his comment because I don't believe in segregation, but it striked a question in my heart. Are there really organizations that feel the same way?

[Sistermadly]

Do you represent your entire organization?

[Elephant Walk]

They shouldn't allow whites in, but we should get the ability to exclude blacks from ours (we do anyways so it doesn't really matter...only one black guy went through rush last year and got cut all the way through)

[gammagirl04]

Yes I do, but it hurts to know that some people are still holding on to negative issues of the past.

[shinerbock]

Who cares, let organizations take whoever they want for whatever reason they want.

[UGAalum94]

I think freedom to choose who you want to have in your group is important and is central to the idea of private association. So in principle, a group should be allowed to exclude whoever they want for whatever reasons they want.

But the practice of excluding people based on race is stupid on several different levels.

The ideals of many IFC and NPC groups transcend race, and if you are limiting your membership in a racial way, you're probably in violation of your own group's policies, your school's policy AND you're weakening your group over time because you're excluding some great folks.

I suspect that racial identity is to more central to NPHC groups. Since they were founded specifically to address the needs of black students, it's possible that racial identity could be at the heart of their organizations. If that's the case, then race, or more importantly attitudes about race, could be a legitimate membership consideration, in my opinion.

But since most IFC groups and NPC groups didn't found themselves with racial identity at the heart of their creed (of if they did, they won't admit it now) it's hard to see why race should be a factor.

I'm aware that my own chapter has a history with this issue, and if you want to talk about it, I'll PM about it, but I don't have any real insight or particulars.

[Minerva's Girl]

gammagirl04, based on the comments of Elephant Walk, it's obviously not in the past--don't fool yourself. Most people don't go around yelling "say it loud, i'm racist and i'm proud." Be aware. Anyway, it is my organization's official policy not to discriminate and we do have white members (as does the guy's you mentioned if he is a part of the D9). I have no problem with it as long as white candidates support the agenda of our organization, which is to address and remedy the challenges of the African American community. The white members that I am familiar with have a unique and heartfelt sensitivity to the African American experience and their role in it. Our main goal in serving the African American community is to right the wrongs inflicted(internally and externally) not to be segregationists.

and shinerbock, organizations have the right to. It seems as though she's asking about the morality of the issue.

Alphagamuga. . . well said.

[shinerbock]

I think there are good and bad reasons for it. To be honest, the huge, and I mean huge majority of minorities on our campus wouldn't fit in well in my chapter. Its not exclusion based on color, its based on culture, interests, etc...

I think groups should have the right to exclude who they want for whatever reason they want...Let them deal with it. Is it stupid? Sure, it can be, but let them make their own decisions.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by gammagirl04

I was approach by a prejudice African American male today, and we got on the subject of Greek life in general. He told that Black Greek organizations should not allow other races to be members. I was very offended by his comment, but it imposed a question upon myself. Are there really organizations that feel the same way?

I am not trying to be funny but is English a second language for you?

Other than that, do a GC search and you'll find this topic discussed in some way, shape or form. Nothing new under the sun.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Its not exclusion based on color, its based on culture, interests, etc...

In many instances I agree, but you know that social class is just a proxy for race in this country.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by gammagirl04

I was approach by a prejudice African American male today, and we got on the subject of Greek life in general. He told that Black Greek organizations should not allow other races to be members. I was very offended by his comment, but it imposed a question upon myself. Are there really organizations that feel the same way?

gammagirl04 I understand that you were offended, but that's the way it is. It's unfortunate that he said that to you, but racism is still alive and well. At the turn of the 20th century my Fraternity's founders were not aloud in white organizations, so they decided to start their own and at the same time they made it a Fraternity that doesn't exclude anyone based own race, religion, or creed. Because of this, we have quite a few white members in our organization. Today most white fraternities and sororities still exclude African Americans from joining, based simply on the color of their skin. It doesn't surprise me though, because that's just how a lot of European Americans are. Always have been, always will be.

[Drolefille]

I wouldn't say most. It's not national policy for any IFC/NIC/NPC GLO and while some chapters may do so, (as per Elephant Walk) many campuses extend bids to rushees regardless of race.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I wouldn't say most. It's not national policy for any IFC/NIC/NPC GLO and while some chapters may do so, (as per Elephant Walk) many campuses extend bids to rushees regardless of race.

Well, I can't say you're wrong, but the reason why I disagree is because so many white clubs and organizations still do this today. My uncle is a member of this really rich country club and when my dad and I went in there together with my uncle, we all got looked at like we didn't belong there. The staff there that know my uncle were great but some of the customers looked at us like African Americans aren't supposed to have any money. I've read books that that said that many white frats and sororities exclude blacks. So, again I have to disagree with you. Some alow it but that's very few.

[Drolefille]

Well, all I can say is that books are outdated.

What region of the country are you in? I know that attitudes in the south are much different from other regions. Us Midwesterners don't tend to see things in quite the same way sometimes. I can tell you that every GLO on my campus (5 sororities and 13 fraternities) had non-white members of every variety. Not bad for a fairly non-diverse campus. And they were by no means "tokens" either. At the same time, the NPHC orgs didn't have a very strong on campus presence except maybe through the BSA. (They weren't recognized campus organizations and didn't use campus facilities)

While that's just a small sample, it seems to hold true based on other people's experiences.
I don't deny there is and was discrimination, but I don't want you to have the perception that all of us sorority girls and fraternity boys share the views of people like Elephant Walk...

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Well, all I can say is that books are outdated.

What region of the country are you in? I know that attitudes in the south are much different from other regions. Us Midwesterners don't tend to see things in quite the same way sometimes. I can tell you that every GLO on my campus (5 sororities and 13 fraternities) had non-white members of every variety. Not bad for a fairly non-diverse campus. And they were by no means "tokens" either. At the same time, the NPHC orgs didn't have a very strong on campus presence except maybe through the BSA. (They weren't recognized campus organizations and didn't use campus facilities)

While that's just a small sample, it seems to hold true based on other people's experiences.
I don't deny there is and was discrimination, but I don't want you to have the perception that all of us sorority girls and fraternity boys share the views of people like Elephant Walk...

Drolefille, you make great points, but one of the books I was reading was only written about 4 years ago. That's very current. I live in the northeast, and my parents were both born and raised in the south, so I know how it is. Elephantwalk is right. Racism is still happening in these organizations. Think about it, all of their founders would have never let anyone black in there organizations, and I know that when most of these organizations were founded a lot of African American weren't attending these schools because they weren't allowed to. But if they were allowed to attend your founders as well as the rest of them would have never allowed this to happen, based on one simple thing. The color of someones skin. How ridiculous is that. It's still happening. I think that's great that it doesn't happen as much where you pledged at, but I still think most of them still exclude blacks. I went to a historically black college and there were a few whites that attended and one of the guys wanted to join my frat. Everyone liked him, and we couldn't think of any reason to cut him. It was his senior year so he decided not to, but we didn't look at his color. Our founders would have turned over in their graves if we excluded him based on his color. He would have made a great addition to Kappa.