Racial Conflict

[Drolefille]

Well, all I can say is that books are outdated.

What region of the country are you in? I know that attitudes in the south are much different from other regions. Us Midwesterners don't tend to see things in quite the same way sometimes. I can tell you that every GLO on my campus (5 sororities and 13 fraternities) had non-white members of every variety. Not bad for a fairly non-diverse campus. And they were by no means "tokens" either. At the same time, the NPHC orgs didn't have a very strong on campus presence except maybe through the BSA. (They weren't recognized campus organizations and didn't use campus facilities)

While that's just a small sample, it seems to hold true based on other people's experiences.
I don't deny there is and was discrimination, but I don't want you to have the perception that all of us sorority girls and fraternity boys share the views of people like Elephant Walk...

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Well, all I can say is that books are outdated.

What region of the country are you in? I know that attitudes in the south are much different from other regions. Us Midwesterners don't tend to see things in quite the same way sometimes. I can tell you that every GLO on my campus (5 sororities and 13 fraternities) had non-white members of every variety. Not bad for a fairly non-diverse campus. And they were by no means "tokens" either. At the same time, the NPHC orgs didn't have a very strong on campus presence except maybe through the BSA. (They weren't recognized campus organizations and didn't use campus facilities)

While that's just a small sample, it seems to hold true based on other people's experiences.
I don't deny there is and was discrimination, but I don't want you to have the perception that all of us sorority girls and fraternity boys share the views of people like Elephant Walk...

Drolefille, you make great points, but one of the books I was reading was only written about 4 years ago. That's very current. I live in the northeast, and my parents were both born and raised in the south, so I know how it is. Elephantwalk is right. Racism is still happening in these organizations. Think about it, all of their founders would have never let anyone black in there organizations, and I know that when most of these organizations were founded a lot of African American weren't attending these schools because they weren't allowed to. But if they were allowed to attend your founders as well as the rest of them would have never allowed this to happen, based on one simple thing. The color of someones skin. How ridiculous is that. It's still happening. I think that's great that it doesn't happen as much where you pledged at, but I still think most of them still exclude blacks. I went to a historically black college and there were a few whites that attended and one of the guys wanted to join my frat. Everyone liked him, and we couldn't think of any reason to cut him. It was his senior year so he decided not to, but we didn't look at his color. Our founders would have turned over in their graves if we excluded him based on his color. He would have made a great addition to Kappa.

[Elephant Walk]

In many instances I agree, but you know that social class is just a proxy for race in this country.

Agreed. It's more a point of money, not race. That's why we also hate white trash, guidos (new money usually), and other white sects.

[ForeverRoses]

So Elephant Walk, let me get this straight. Your fraternity chapter only offers bids to old money, white, southern boys that allow themselves to be hazed? Do you use religion as a qualifier as well? (only Protestants, etc.).

It is your chapter and if that's the way you want to do it, then it is your right (well, not the hazing part but that is a different thread). It is just foreign to me- I went to school in the midwest where even the traditionally southern fraternities had diversity. As for the sororities, I don't remember a single time when race was brought up during membership selection.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

So Elephant Walk, let me get this straight. Your fraternity chapter only offers bids to old money, white, southern boys that allow themselves to be hazed? Do you use religion as a qualifier as well? (only Protestants, etc.).

It is your chapter and if that's the way you want to do it, then it is your right (well, not the hazing part but that is a different thread). It is just foreign to me- I went to school in the midwest where even the traditionally southern fraternities had diversity. As for the sororities, I don't remember a single time when race was brought up during membership selection.

The Midwest and North are completely different than the South......you have to understand that. I wouldn't have exactly put it like ElephantWalk, but if a chapter wants to bid only a certain type of guy from certain areas (like most top Southern chapters do) then it is their right to do so.

[EGAOPi]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

So Elephant Walk, let me get this straight. Your fraternity chapter only offers bids to old money, white, southern boys that allow themselves to be hazed? Do you use religion as a qualifier as well? (only Protestants, etc.).

It is your chapter and if that's the way you want to do it, then it is your right (well, not the hazing part but that is a different thread). It is just foreign to me- I went to school in the midwest where even the traditionally southern fraternities had diversity. As for the sororities, I don't remember a single time when race was brought up during membership selection.

I agree with you about seeing diversity in traditionally southern fraternities. I have seen several black people in Kappa Alpha Order.

[UGAalum94]

Macallen, you're so silly. It's hard believe that you could really be a member of top tier group anyplace.

[macallan25]

Enlighten me on how you have come to that conclusion.

.....and i'm sorry you are in a bottom feeder sorority at UGA.

[Minerva's Girl]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

That's why we also hate white trash, guidos (new money usually), and other white sects.

It is scary to me that you think "hating" people is something to be proud of. At least you're honest though---I guess.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

That's why we also hate white trash, guidos (new money usually), and other white sects.

Which is funny to me because only the people who make up the rules through cultural capital can define their own trashiness as acceptable and "high class" whereas the trashiness of others is deemed "low class."



I've been watching wealthy white families act like trash for much of my life. Binge drinking, rowdy public displays, and more. Basically, things they wouldn't do in the streets of our quiet neighborhoods (although many were alcoholics behind closed doors) but they would do them on Family Weekends or in general public areas. Embarassing.

[shinerbock]

I just don't understand why people view it as a problem. Everyone excludes. Black people often segregate themselves, and I fail to see anything wrong with that. They often have more in common with other black people, and share common interests and goals. I just think its stupid to go out of your way to achieve diversity. Once again diversity =/= mixed races. You can have plenty of diversity in an all white or all black group. If your group wants to have a lot of different cultures and view points in it, go for it, enjoy. As for my fraternity, the reason we joined a fraternity is to be around people with common interests. If I wanted to be in a multi-cultural environment with a host of viewpoints, ideologies and faiths, I'd have joined....THE WORLD.

[FSUZeta]

wealth does not equal high class, and lack of wealth does not equal white trash. i have known plenty of people who were not rich, but were admired in the community in which they lived-they were not considered white trash.

i have also known rich people who definately were white trash-people much like the wealthy people that dstchaos described. to me trashy has more to do with actions than with ones bank account.

please try not to generalize about southern sororities and fraternities not offering membership to blacks-because that is just not true. off the top of my head i can name several npc and ifc chapters that have black members.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

wealth does not equal high class, and lack of wealth does not equal white trash. i have known plenty of people who were not rich, but were admired in the community in which they lived-they were not considered white trash.

i have also known rich people who definately were white trash-people much like the wealthy people that dstchaos described. to me trashy has more to do with actions than with ones bank account.

My point, exactly.

[blackngoldengrl]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

please try not to generalize about southern sororities and fraternities not offering membership to blacks-because that is just not true. off the top of my head i can name several npc and ifc chapters that have black members.

Like some at the university of alabama? Do we even NEED to go there?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

off the top of my head i can name several npc and ifc chapters that have black members.

I can too....and I hate to say it, but those chapters are not good at their respective campuses....at all.