The Term African American

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by Sista

Luther's song was a good analogy for what it seems like you are saying.
From your idea of Social designations/Social construction, this means a persons race can change randomly, even within a ten year period depending on other factors.

Yes, exactly - a person's race is not fixed. The same person may be considered black in America and white somewhere else (Brazil, perhaps?), and some other thing entirely some other place. There are "races" which other countries label that we don't here - the entire concept of race is extremely fluid.

[Sista]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

I said a subsection of the world's population to indicate that not every single last person in the world has "donated" their DNA to be stored/tested, but that a representative sample of the DNA of the multitude peoples that populate the earth were used.

That would be obvious that not every single last person in the world has donated their DNA. So are you saying that a percentage of people from every ethnic group in the world, continent to continent has donated DNA? That is what I am now understanding you to say.

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

The comparison was the DNA of the individual participants to that of the samples on file.

Individual participants? Were they of Euroepan decent?

[Sista]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

Yes, exactly - a person's race is not fixed. The same person may be considered black in America and white somewhere else (Brazil, perhaps?), and some other thing entirely some other place. There are "races" which other countries label that we don't here - the entire concept of race is extremely fluid.

What you are now saying in the above quote is a persons race is tied into the ignorance of other people? Well, that makes sense in a racist way.

Also, it looks like what you are saying is a persons race is not determined by he or she but by how other people/outsiders perceive them to be. Is that what you are also saying?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Sista

I interpret this as an indirect insult. Did I word that correctly, if so, you should know what I mean?

Don't be so easily insulted. I like for people to get terms correct and for people to not debate over things that are undebatable. Simple as that. [/QUOTE]

[laylo]

Originally Posted by Sista

What you are now saying in the above quote is a persons race is tied into the ignorance of other people? Well, that makes sense in a racist way.

Also, it looks like what you are saying is a persons race is not determined by he or she but by how other people/outsiders perceive them to be. Is that what you are also saying?

Other countries' and cultures' concepts of race are no more ignorant or racist than yours, they are simply different. The individual's concept of race is determined by the society through which s/he learned race (s/he is not an "outsider" if s/he is part of the society).

[AKA_Monet]

Well, actually, you do have both a SNP database and a hapmap that geographically designates populations of people. The point of this information is it is not individual--it is "population based". The genes themselves are not coding for anything, they are just EST's, non-coding regions, junk DNA, or RFLP's. It is the polymorphisms that are being compared from 1 million to 1 million, genome wide and cM or entire chromosome comparisons.

For instances, as I understand it, at the 21 chromosome the break to form 3 chromosomes is not ALWAYS in the same place for every child that has Down's. Most of the time it is. But it is that inherited changes that actually does not cause mutations in the parent, eventually getting to the child. Or the mutations are epigenetic which is begininng to modulate genes different from our understanding.

No, Homo sapiens sapiens are not genetically different, meaning all our genes are in the same place and where they should be. But we have high variation on how our genes are "spelled". And the similarities vs. the differences are being compared on an evolutionary level.

We are finding that the more different a genome is from another the older the group is in the population that shares similarities with those in Africa. Like they just found this guy who is related to Genghis Khan genome... They did a Y-chromosome spread.

For women, they do a mitochondrial spread.

I was going to send off my DNA to be sequenced and see what I could find... It's about $200+

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by Sista

That would be obvious that not every single last person in the world has donated their DNA. So are you saying that a percentage of people from every ethnic group in the world, continent to continent has donated DNA? That is what I am now understanding you to say.

I don't believe they broke it down into percentages per group/ethnicity, from my general understanding of what a representative sample means, as well as what I remember from the mini series, they have DNA on file for just about if not all of "groups of people" in the world. It is quite possible that the "file" for the French is much larger than that for the Igbo people. I think some of the links Wolfman provided may be able to give better insight into actual numbers and ethinicities "on file" at the testing site they used?

Originally Posted by Sista

Individual participants? Were they of Euroepan decent?

The individual participants I was speaking of were those people highlighted in mini series, Quincy Jones, Oprah, etc. Their DNA was taken and then compared to the samples "on file".

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Well, actually, you do have both a SNP database and a hapmap that geographically designates populations of people. The point of this information is it is not individual--it is "population based". The genes themselves are not coding for anything, they are just EST's, non-coding regions, junk DNA, or RFLP's. It is the polymorphisms that are being compared from 1 million to 1 million, genome wide and cM or entire chromosome comparisons.

For instances, as I understand it, at the 21 chromosome the break to form 3 chromosomes is not ALWAYS in the same place for every child that has Down's. Most of the time it is. But it is that inherited changes that actually does not cause mutations in the parent, eventually getting to the child. Or the mutations are epigenetic which is begininng to modulate genes different from our understanding.

No, Homo sapiens sapiens are not genetically different, meaning all our genes are in the same place and where they should be. But we have high variation on how our genes are "spelled". And the similarities vs. the differences are being compared on an evolutionary level.

We are finding that the more different a genome is from another the older the group is in the population that shares similarities with those in Africa. Like they just found this guy who is related to Genghis Khan genome... They did a Y-chromosome spread.

For women, they do a mitochondrial spread.

I was going to send off my DNA to be sequenced and see what I could find... It's about $200+

I'm so far away from the basic genetics lessons taught in Freshman Bio, but amazingly I understood this, thanks a bunch. I've considered getting tested myself. Since you seem to have a much better understanding of the actual science of it, is there a center you would recommend?

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

I'm so far away from the basic genetics lessons taught in Freshman Bio, but amazingly I understood this, thanks a bunch. I've considered getting tested myself. Since you seem to have a much better understanding of the actual science of it, is there a center you would recommend?

My boss just recommended one and I forgot what it was. He said he sent his off for ~$150. I think it is inside mouth swabs or "buccal cells".

The irony is more an more women are being found to be chimeras. I dunno if they found male chimeras? Chimeras are one part of a persons body codes for one set of genes, whereas another part, mainly the reproductive system, codes for another set of genes. So like your kids are not genetically related to you if they take your hair or mouth swab DNA. But if they take your internal organ DNA, i.e. you thyroid or uterine, the researcher find the relationship.

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by laylo

Other countries' and cultures' concepts of race are no more ignorant or racist than yours, they are simply different. The individual's concept of race is determined by the society through which s/he learned race (s/he is not an "outsider" if s/he is part of the society).

Yes, this is what I meant

[Sista]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Don't be so easily insulted. I like for people to get terms correct and for people to not debate over things that are undebatable. Simple as that.

Please excuse me, I didn't know you were so dictatorial, Oh, but then again, I did


Mr. Chaos, what gives you the right to say what is and what is not debatable? You like for people do get the terms correct? You have a lot of nerve. I wasn't insulted at all, I was being sarcastic and at the same time letting you know that I could read in betweeen your sublte lines.

Hey, are you a white man? You strike me as one

[Sista]

Originally Posted by laylo

Other countries' and cultures' concepts of race are no more ignorant or racist than yours, they are simply different.

This is the truth, we are all ignorant to some degree but that wasn't the point.

Originally Posted by laylo

The individual's concept of race is determined by the society through which s/he learned race (s/he is not an "outsider" if s/he is part of the society

I don't agree with this, I can't even agree that a part of what you said in the above quote has any type of validity.

I am a part of the American society, I am told that I am Black, African American, Colored and Negro, What will my society call me next? What you say in the above is, according to you.... My concept of race is determined by the society which I learned race, right? The people who labeled me the above names, they are not outsiders, they are right here in my society, so you tell me, which one of the titles should I accept or should I accept any of them?

Again, I don't agree that the people which live in your society are the ones who determined which race you are. Also, I am not a sponge so I don't go around letting people push onto me who I am. My individual concept is that I am African Origin and Afrcian decent, that's it and that's all.

[Sista]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I was going to send off my DNA to be sequenced and see what I could find... It's about $200+

Which place were you going to send it to?

[laylo]

Originally Posted by Sista

I am a part of the American society, I am told that I am Black, African American, Colored and Negro, What will my society call me next? What you say in the above is, according to you.... My concept of race is determined by the society which I learned race, right? The people who labeled me the above names, they are not outsiders, they are right here in my society, so you tell me, which one of the titles should I accept or should I accept any of them?

Again, I don't agree that the people which live in your society are the ones who determined which race you are. Also, I am not a sponge so I don't go around letting people push onto me who I am. My individual concept is that I am African Origin and Afrcian decent, that's it and that's all.

Black, African-American, Colored, and Negro are all different titles for the same concept. I and other posters were referring to concepts, not names. We are talking about the basic ways in which people understand racial categories and the fact that such things as racial categories were invented. As much as you want to take credit for your Uhuru philosophy, it is not individual. It is based on the placing of people of detectable African descent into one category together, which you learned at a young age. All humans are socialized, and that doesn't make you less of an independent thinker.

[Sista]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

I don't believe they broke it down into percentages per group/ethnicity, from my general understanding of what a representative sample means, as well as what I remember from the mini series, they have DNA on file for just about if not all of "groups of people" in the world. It is quite possible that the "file" for the French is much larger than that for the Igbo people. I think some of the links Wolfman provided may be able to give better insight into actual numbers and ethinicities "on file" at the testing site they used?".

That was my whole point in an earlier post. I have researched many different DNA testing places before I decided to take the test my self. They make it very clear to you that they do not have DNA from all people yet, that they are still in the process of collecting samples. The only samples they will be able to compare ones DNA to are the ones they have available, on file at the time of the testing. As I also stated in another post, Whoopi's DNA type may have been one of those not yet on file.

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

The individual participants I was speaking of were those people highlighted in mini series, Quincy Jones, Oprah, etc. Their DNA was taken and then compared to the samples "on file".

It seems like to me this would make things much more clearer, obviously for the others, DNA files for their same DNA was available, on file. Maybe Whoopi is descending from some type of African forest people....Who knows? It is hard to get African people who still live in the forest to donate blood, whereas the ones who live like the modern day Africans, they would be more of a willing participant. Example: Fulani, Igbo, Yuroba, Benin, Hausa these are all Nigerian West Africans but you get my drift, these African people don't live in the forest. However, some Africans still do.

I don't really think Whoopi is descending from forest living Africans but I am just saying, a sample of her Genetic type may not, as of yet be on file. This is why I ask for a source to be provided to the Genetic center Henry Louis used, that way I can find out for my self if that center has DNA types for all ethnic backgrounds.