Race & Sororities - Page 9

deepimpact2 · #**121** 05-20-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

What in the world does Depauw have to do with race?

Now you're reaching.

Did you read it?

SWTXBelle · #**122** 05-20-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Those incidents also show how a tone can be set on a campus that would discourage black women from even trying to be a part of those groups. Furthermore, if members of these groups participate in racist activities, do ou really think they would then vote in someone black? Those activities demonstrate a certain mindset...one that isn't very accepting of blacks.

http://chronicle.com/news/article/1708/sorority-evictions-at-depauw-u-raise-questions-about-bias-and-looks

http://media.www.dakotastudent.com/m...-3289876.shtml

You mean that perhaps qualified black women, for whatever reason, are not going through recruitment at all? Hmmmm . . . where I have heard that before?

If your take on it were true, we wouldn't see black or minority members of NPC chapters - and yet we do(even in the South!!!). That is the ultimate proof of what I and other NPC members have said - that no NPC group has a racial requirement, and that many blacks and other minorities have found a home in the groups of the NPC. That is not to say that it MIGHT or MIGHT NOT be an issue at Ole Miss - it could. But as I pointed out before and as you ignored, if qualified black women do not go through recruitment it will never change. AND even if the op were not to get a bid, it could be something other than her race.

So - deepimpact2 - what exactly is it you are telling the op? That she shouldn't even try?

deepimpact2 · #**123** 05-20-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

You mean that perhaps qualified women, for whatever reason, are not going through recruitment at all? Hmmmm . . . where I have heard that before?

If your take on it were true, we wouldn't see black or minority members of NPC chapters - and yet we do. That is the ultimate proof of what I and other NPC members have said - that no NPC group has a racial requirement, and that many blacks and other minorities have found a home in the groups of the NPC. That is not to say that it MIGHT or MIGHT NOT be an issue at Ole Miss - it could. But as I pointed out before and as you ignored, if qualified black women do not go through recruitment it will never change. AND even if the op were not to get a bid, it could be something other than her race.

So - deepimpact2 - what exactly is it you are telling the op? That she shouldn't even try?

The problem is that you are trying to have an all-or-nothing stance. You can't do that. As DrPhil pointed out, I never said ALL. You can never say ALL about anything. My take on it is simply that racism exists in the white sororities and that it DOES affect membership.

With respect to the issue of qualified women not applying, MY point is that in some instances it is because of these types of incidents. YOU are just throwing it out there to explain why there aren't more black women in these groups. What qualified black woman in her right mind would want to join an org that throws or participates in black face parties?

SWTXBelle · #**124** 05-20-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

The problem is that you are trying to have an all-or-nothing stance. You can't do that. As DrPhil pointed out, I never said ALL. You can never say ALL about anything. My take on it is simply that racism exists in the white sororities and that it DOES affect membership.

With respect to the issue of qualified women not applying, MY point is that in some instances it is because of these types of incidents. YOU are just throwing it out there to explain why there aren't more black women in these groups. What qualified black woman in her right mind would want to join an org that throws or participates in black face parties?

Well, she'd have trouble joining a fraternity because of sexism.

One issue is you are painting with too broad a brush - AND you are assuming that you know what determines membership selection in a NPC chapter. YOU DON'T. You can't. You may assume all you want, but the problem is you keep saying you KNOW.

baci · #**125** 05-20-2009, 03:16 PM

OMG, there are countless reasons young women do not find a home in an NPC chapter and race may very well just be one of them. All interested and qualified black women should go through recruitment. There are more reasons to go through recruitment than to not go through. To even say this person would not get an invitation is ridiculous. She should try as many young women I know did try ages ago. Did they all pledge - no. Many dropped out just as many young white women dropped. Funny thing, several of the black women I know became little sisters to some amazing " majority white" fraternities and that was way back in the day. Go figure!

KSUViolet06 · #**126** 05-20-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

My take on it is simply that racism exists in the white sororities and that it DOES affect membership.

Not to nitpick, but we are not "the white sororities."

baci · #**127** 05-20-2009, 03:17 PM

that made me chuckle just a bit KSUViolet^^

SWTXBelle · #**128** 05-20-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

So, within this context, your Phi Mu buddy and Condi Rice are akin to "some of my bestfriends are black." It's like dismissing that racism and discrimination exist in society because there's a Black POTUS.

I need a tongue-in-cheek icon - yep, I know it reeks of "sombfab!", and its use was ironic. Sorry.

eta - Upon reflection - no. It's not the same. If, as di3 does, you are trying to argue that NPC sororities are racist, then citing NPC members who are not white is simply a support of an assertion.

I'd clarify further by saying this - While Obama's election does not prove that racism does not exist, it does prove that it may be overcome. While black members of NPC groups do not prove that racism does not exist at all, it does prove that it may not be an issue in all chapters.

deepimpact2 · #**129** 05-20-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Well, she'd have trouble joining a fraternity because of sexism.

One issue is you are painting with too broad a brush - AND you are assuming that you know what determines membership selection in a NPC chapter. YOU DON'T. You can't. You may assume all you want, but the problem is you keep saying you KNOW.

I'm not saying I know how membership selection goes. I'm saying that it is BS to sit there and act as though race doesn't sometimes play a role. And yes, I also said that some of these groups will try to hide behind the membership selection process argument.

SWTXBelle · #**130** 05-20-2009, 03:20 PM

So to wrap it all up - (I've got to run to carpool). Can we agree:

1.) The op should go through recruitment if she is truly interested in investigating the NPC.

2.) Race could be an issue in membership selection. Or not. We don't know.

How's that? Let's all join hands and sing now!

agzg · #**131** 05-20-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Not to nitpick, but we are not "the white sororities."

Not nitpicking, just telling the truth.

I didn't join an NPC thinking it was a "white sorority." I don't think most members of NPCs think that way. Maybe some do, but they're probably in the minority, or, as Chaos said, on racially charged campuses.

baci · #**132** 05-20-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

So to wrap it all up - (I've got to run to carpool). Can we agree:

1.) The op should go through recruitment if she is truly interested in investigating the NPC.

2.) Race could be an issue in membership selection. Or not. We don't know.

How's that? Let's all join hands and sing now!

Amen, sister!

Zillini · #**133** 05-20-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I'm not saying I know how membership selection goes. I'm saying that it is BS to sit there and act as though race doesn't sometimes play a role. And yes, I also said that some of these groups will try to hide behind the membership selection process argument.

Herein lies the problem. Membership selection IS confidential. Therefore an NPC chapter cannot correct assumptions/accusations of why any PNM is released because they are not allowed to talk about it. Not to our alums, non-members, and certainly not to the press.

How often have we all heard stories right here on GC about Penny Perfect PNM who got released? Everyone responds maybe she didn't click with the actives, maybe there were 100's of others who were just as perfect, yadda, yadda, yadda. Add race to the mix and suddenly the assumption is it was racism.

AOII Angel · #**134** 05-20-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

My take on it is simply that racism exists in the white sororities and that it DOES affect membership.

This sounds like a blanket statement that NPC sororities are racist. You don't have to use the word "ALL" to paint an entire group of organizations as racist. If you were trying to say that racism exists in SOME CHAPTERS of NPC sororities and MAY affect membership, I would agree with you 100%.

deepimpact2 · #**135** 05-20-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zillini

Herein lies the problem. Membership selection IS confidential. Therefore an NPC chapter cannot correct assumptions/accusations of why any PNM is released because they are not allowed to talk about it. Not to our alums, non-members, and certainly not to the press.

How often have we all heard stories right here on GC about Penny Perfect PNM who got released? Everyone responds maybe she didn't click with the actives, maybe there were 100's of others who were just as perfect, yadda, yadda, yadda. Add race to the mix and suddenly the assumption is it was racism.

It doesn't matter whether membership selection is confidential.