vaccinate your kids, or else!!

[cheerfulgreek]

Vaccines are important and, yes viruses do mutate, but sometimes the vaccines can cause problems in some children. A lot of times children don't have a strong enough immune system to fight off some of the ingredients used to make up the vaccines, which can cause neurological problems.

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Vaccines are important because, yes they do mutate, but sometimes they can cause problems in some children, because a lot of times children don't have a strong enough immune system to fight off some of the ingredients used to make up the vaccines, which can cause neurological problems.

Holy run-on sentence batman.

Yes, some may have a reaction, but that percentage is small. Genetics is a tricky thing. Do you take the risk of potentially having a reaction and get the vax or do you decide to not vax and possibly allow more serious reactions from a case of measles? It's a hard call, but medicine has shown, for the general population, the benefits of vaxes far outweigh the potential risks.

I think each parent needs to do the research and decide for themselves what is best for their child, but also take into consideration the general population as well and understand if they don't vax there's a risk.

I know some people who SAH have declined or decided to delay some vaxes because their children aren't in daycares and aren't exposed to as many things. I know others who have decided to spread out or delay other vaxes for personal reasons. The kiddo just got his MMR and Varicella shots at his 2Y checkup a few weeks ago. I pondered whether to wait a bit longer or to just get them, but considering the fact he was switching to a daycare center, we decided to just go ahead and get them. Knock on wood, he's been fine.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

Holy run-on sentence batman.

lol wow, it really was, wasn't it. Geez.

[texas*princess]

sorry but i have a problem with people who are OK putting the general public at risk because they don't think their child should get a vaccination.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Vaccines are important and, yes they do mutate, but sometimes they can cause problems in some children. A lot of times children don't have a strong enough immune system to fight off some of the ingredients used to make up the vaccines, which can cause neurological problems.

Sweetheart, I did not intend to mislead you, however I meant the viruses. NOT the vaccines. I do not think that has EVER been shown! Viruses we all know mutate at a drop of a hat...

When one chooses to NOT vaccinate, AND catch the illness there is a very high probability that it will mutate into a form that cannot be vaccinated against.

HIV is definitely like that... HSV can possibly do that... Some of the HPV strains are thought to do that although the data is sketchy. Measles hasn't been shown to do that, but it has never been tested. Influenza is known to mutate rapidly like wildfire. Malaria is thought to do that, that is why it is tough to treat. Tuberculosis--although a bacterium is thought to do that. And chicken pox, maybe small pox and especially monkey pox can mutate, but not as fast as others.

Now, I dunno about immunity being poor in the children at the time of vax... But immunity is mandated by the mother's milk and if it is nutrient poor, which it usually is, there are issues of have an appropriate immune reaction...

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

The kiddo just got his MMR and Varicella shots at his 2Y checkup a few weeks ago. I pondered whether to wait a bit longer or to just get them, but considering the fact he was switching to a daycare center, we decided to just go ahead and get them. Knock on wood, he's been fine.

I really hope that your son will be excellent as he grows up!!!

I also think that since the Big Pharma shipped our manufacturing of medical products to less than altruistic venues, that there needs to be SOMETHING to protect consumers. One too many drugs are coming up adulterated--like the Heparin scandal. So, it does not seem far fetched that the non-active ingredients were tainted in vax. How do we protect ourselves? I am not a public health person... I dunno?

[SWTXBelle]

I think parents should have the right to decide whether or not to vaccinate their children.

I also think that schools and other groups should have the right to prevent these children from becoming part of the group and endangering other children.

Life as a parent means making many, many difficult choices. Your choice to not vaccinate your child should not mean that my child is then endangered. Make your choice, but live with the consequences.

[cheerfulgreek]

I agree, parents should have the right to make that decision, but only if their child doesn't have a strong enough immune system. There have been some cases of this. I think there are risks for having neurological problems, but like it was stated above, the risks are low.

I don't think vaccines are the end all be all though. Viruses can eventually become immune to the vaccine. I'm not an expert on human health, but I know animals to some degree, (I still have 3-4 more years of school left) and animals and humans are similar in some ways (why do you think mice are experimented on). Like in cats for example. I don't know all of the vaccines used for cats as of yet, but I do know that there are several types of vaccines in use. Unfortunately they don't always work, which can sometimes be the case in human beings too. Sometimes it can be due to improper handling and storage, incorrect administration, or an inability of the cat to respond to the vaccine because of a run-down condition or concurrent illness that stress the immune system.

If given too many vaccines at the same time or too frequently, it can cause an immune system overload and a failure to produce antibodies. Also, we have to remember that in humans and animals, if already infected, vaccinating him/her will not alter the course of the disease.
I'm sure this is similar in people, though I could be wrong but when stretching out the vaccine by dividing a single dose between two cats, is another reason a vaccine may not be effective.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Sweetheart, I did not intend to mislead you, however I meant the viruses. NOT the vaccines.

You didn't mislead me, I just made a typo. In one of the "theys", I was referring to the viruses and in the other "they", I was referring to the vaccines. However I fixed it.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I don't think vaccines are the end all be all though. Viruses can eventually become immune to the vaccine. I'm not an expert on human health, but I know animals to some degree, (I still have 3-4 more years of school left) and animals and humans are similar in some ways (why do you think mice are experimented on). Like in cats for example. I don't know all of the vaccines used for cats as of yet, but I do know that there are several types of vaccines in use. Unfortunately they don't always work, which can sometimes be the case in human beings too. Sometimes it can be due to improper handling and storage, incorrect administration, or an inability of the cat to respond to the vaccine because of a run-down condition or concurrent illness that stress the immune system.

If given too many vaccines at the same time or too frequently, it can cause an immune system overload and a failure to produce antibodies. Also, we have to remember that in humans and animals, if already infected, vaccinating him/her will not alter the course of the disease.
I'm sure this is similar in people, though I could be wrong but when stretching out the vaccine by dividing a single dose between two cats, is another reason a vaccine may not be effective.

Remember viruses are not live independent organisms. They do not have immune systems. What happens is they mutate virion stage before shedding. For HIV and many other lenteviruses, the reverse transcriptase is a infidelity enzyme and fails to keep normal code stick inosines rather than A/U's at the sequence. That is why the genetic sequence is mutated in HIV. The infectiousness of HIV is thought to be mandated by the gp130, the main protein that binds the CD4+ cells--apparently at the TCR for T-cells or APC binding site in Macrophages.

And children's immunity is boosted upon injection. It is different when the ACTUAL vaccination agent is causing the problem (which is highly unlikely) and the nonactive ingredients, such as over-sulfated chondroitin--which causes more problems than needed.

[ISUKappa]

I know if my son was in any way sick, even with a small cold, I could ask my Ped to wait on the vaxes for a few weeks until he was better becuase I had concerns about his immune system being overloaded. I did it more than once, actually. Our Ped had no issue with waiting a few weeks, nor did he have any issue with spreading them out. Again, the responsibilities fall to the parents to do the research and decide what is best for their children, but also take the general population into account.

And I definitely think vaccines have helped greatly diminish diseases that in the past were extremely devastating, crippling and/or fatal (polio, anyone?).

I also feel confident there is constant research and updating being done on vaccines and they are altered accordingly to need.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Remember viruses are not live independent organisms. They do not have immune systems. What happens is they mutate virion stage before shedding. For HIV and many other lenteviruses, the reverse transcriptase is a infidelity enzyme and fails to keep normal code stick inosines rather than A/U's at the sequence. That is why the genetic sequence is mutated in HIV. The infectiousness of HIV is thought to be mandated by the gp130, the main protein that binds the CD4+ cells--apparently at the TCR for T-cells or APC binding site in Macrophages.

And children's immunity is boosted upon injection. It is different when the ACTUAL vaccination agent is causing the problem (which is highly unlikely) and the nonactive ingredients, such as over-sulfated chondroitin--which causes more problems than needed.

I agree, as far as we know, they don't have immune systems but they are living. The problem with HIV is it mutates more rapidly than other viruses, which makes it one of the biggest obstacles to a successful vaccine. One thing about it though, is it's genetic material is prone to errors during duplication and replicating HIV molecules frequently exchange pieces of genes. Because of this, instability and the potentially rapid life cycle of the virus, the genetic sequences of HIV particles in a single person can actually be as diverse as those of all the influenza viruses worldwide. You have to remember, a vaccine that produces an immune response against one HIV sequence may have no effect on other strands.

What would be great if there were one vaccine that contained ingredients to prevent or slow down all viruses. I know in animals there are some medications that can be prescribed for a certain parasite, while at the same time preventing others. Like Epsiprantel for example has no effect on ascarids or hookworms, but it kills tapeworms. On the other hand Fenbendazole is good for getting rid of ascarids, hookworms, and tapeworms and also works great for treating giardia. Milbemycin oxime treats all the parasites I've listed but has no effect on tapeworms, but works great at killing heartworms. But even the medications that work great at treating more than what they're prescribed to treat, still do not treat everything.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I think parents should have the right to decide whether or not to vaccinate their children.

I also think that schools and other groups should have the right to prevent these children from becoming part of the group and endangering other children.

Life as a parent means making many, many difficult choices. Your choice to not vaccinate your child should not mean that my child is then endangered. Make your choice, but live with the consequences.

In addition, I think that parents that choose to not vaccinate their children should be held legally liable if that child infects someone else, just like I would be held legally liable for an unvaccinated dog.