Too fat to recruit: or, DePauw, the Sequel

[cuteASAbug]

Let's be honest. Girls are petty. It's a known fact. It's why the guys still can't figure sorority rush or why we have all the rules that we do. No matter what you do, some girls are going to judge sororities based on superficial things. Take away decorations and door songs, they will judge on the cutest mascot, prettiest colors, number of cheerleaders, best dressed girls, etc.

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I hear what you are saying, but many groups have policies that instruct (and pressure) chapters to recruit to quota and chapter total. It's not what the founders had in mind, but it seems to be where we are today.

I too wonder if having women's groups be more like the IFC might not be more empowering to genuine sisterhood, but NPC recruitment IS different and creates different expectations for the chapters. A NPC chapter doesn't usually have the option to play by its own rules and be viable.

Oh, I completely agree. We have to deal with things the way they are now. It just makes me sad...and a bit angry.

[Soliloquy]

It's things like this, that makes myself and MANY other women leary about joining a sorority.

I know my convictions to join will hold true, I could really care less if I feel a connection with the "fat sorority" or the "slutty sorority" etc. If I feel like these are women I want to spend a lot of time with during my collegiate years, you are darn tootin' I will accept a bid from them.

How many wonderful, smart, talented etc. women have refused sorority (or weren't given the opportunity) life because of stereotypical behaviors like this? I would be absolutely disgusted if my GLO acted in this fashion. Granted, I am not in one (yet), I would just hope that my (future) sisters do not act this way.

Isn't part of being in a sorority demonstrating class, morals, scholarly talents, and a dedication to the community? How is forcing someone to abstain from recruitment due to their weight, or even overlooking a PNM due to her weight- despite her incredible resume, acting classy? How is it classy to say that you don't want to ruin your sorority's image by allowing a heavy girl in? Do you really have morals if you are acting this way?

um... no.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by cuteASAbug

Let's be honest. Girls are petty. It's a known fact. It's why the guys still can't figure sorority rush or why we have all the rules that we do. No matter what you do, some girls are going to judge sororities based on superficial things. Take away decorations and door songs, they will judge on the cutest mascot, prettiest colors, number of cheerleaders, best dressed girls, etc.

Even if this is true, that doesn't mean that these women should be members of sororities, if they are petty. And I refuse to believe that ALL girls are petty--anytime someone makes a generalization like that I am apprehensive.

[MSKKG]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Well, say she and the other fat/fugly/what have you girls stay away from rush. The sorority does great with their "new image" and gets a pledge class full of adorable girls.

Then when those adorable girls show up for bid day, they notice that there are 1) sorority members that they haven't met before 2) most of those members are less attractive than the members who rushed them.

What are these new girls going to think? Don't you think they'll feel more than a bit taken, hoodwinked, bamboozled, etc? I would.

AnchorAlumna, what if this girl has a sparkling personality and tells the funniest stories ever and can put any rushee at ease? What if the "pretty" girls are bumps on logs? I wonder if the national consultant looked at that.

Just a thought: What if your "fat/fugly/what have you girls" are Rho Gammas? They would show up at Bid Day, too. They may have met some of the NMs but not all. Are all Rho Gammas volunteers or do their GLOs choose them?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

I know it doesn't mean NO make up; if you read what I wrote, I said it would be LESS about those things, not that they won't occur at all...

KathyKD, why do you think that will be?

(I'm not just being contrary, but since I honestly never heard a women join a group because she liked the food or decorations unless she had absolutely nothing of merit to make a decision on, I can't figure out why eliminating the remaining "frills" will cause her to use deeper standards. I can totally see why it frees up the members to focus exclusively on the PNMs, which seems great, but it doesn't ensure that they will focus on the "right" things.)

[kathykd2005]

Yes, yes, and YES to everything you said. I'm glad to see such a mature point of view from a PNM. Kudos!

Originally Posted by Soliloquy

It's things like this, that makes myself and MANY other women leary about joining a sorority.

I know my convictions to join will hold true, I could really care less if I feel a connection with the "fat sorority" or the "slutty sorority" etc. If I feel like these are women I want to spend a lot of time with during my collegiate years, you are darn tootin' I will accept a bid from them.

How many wonderful, smart, talented etc. women have refused sorority (or weren't given the opportunity) life because of stereotypical behaviors like this? I would be absolutely disgusted if my GLO acted in this fashion. Granted, I am not in one (yet), I would just hope that my (future) sisters do not act this way.

Isn't part of being in a sorority demonstrating class, morals, scholarly talents, and a dedication to the community? How is forcing someone to abstain from recruitment due to their weight, or even overlooking a PNM due to her weight- despite her incredible resume, acting classy? How is it classy to say that you don't want to ruin your sorority's image by allowing a heavy girl in? Do you really have morals if you are acting this way?

um... no.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

KathyKD, why do you think that will be?

(I'm not just being contrary, but since I honestly never heard a women join a group because she liked the food or decorations unless she had absolutely nothing of merit to make a decision on, I can't figure out why eliminating the remaining "frills" will cause her to use deeper standards. I can totally see why it frees up the members to focus exclusively on the PNMs, which seems great, but it doesn't ensure that they will focus on the "right" things.)

I didn't say it forced them to have morals or to have higher standards, just that some of the outside forces, like how impressive their house seemed or how many girls were able to perform in a skit, or what kind of food they ate are eliminated. We were discussing that unfortunately, some young women ARE quite self-centered and petty, and a no-frills recruitment cuts down on that effect, and helps chapters with lower funds compete. I never said that it gives people better ways of thinking; it simply lets the sorority focus more on TALKING to the PNMs than on impressing them.

[UGAalum94]

It's so weird to me to learn that people actually cared about the quality of the frills of groups during rush. My campus was so heavily tipped toward prior reputation, I can't imagine door chants making a difference.

ETA: thanks, KathyKD for your response.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by MSKKG

Just a thought: What if your "fat/fugly/what have you girls" are Rho Gammas? They would show up at Bid Day, too. They may have met some of the NMs but not all. Are all Rho Gammas volunteers or do their GLOs choose them?

That's another story--unfortunately, some are voted on, and can be forced into the duty by a chapter, too.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

It's so weird to me to learn that people actually cared about the quality of the frill of groups during rush. My campus was so heavily tipped toward prior reputation, I can't imagine door chants making a difference.

Sometimes at smaller schools, that is what gives a chapter the leg-up. Sad, but true. This is why so many chapters spend so much money on Recruitment, because they are attempting to undermine the rumors that the PNMs have heard on campus about each house.

[ChildoftheHorn]

OK,

I will be the first to admit that I am a big girl and in a sorority at a very Greek school.
There are some factors that do affect this.
-I am a big Girl, but I am proportional (i.e. VERY curvy) with a defined jaw.
-The clothes I wear don't make bulges and keep clean lines (which is more than I can say for some "skinny" girls).
-Hyper active on campus(in a bunch of groups w/leadership).

The point is how you wear it!
Heck, I am usually the one getting in my guy friends at an *event* when I wear a low-cut shirt (brought to the front of the line).

If you saw me on campus, I would probably be wearing a polo w/dark jeans and heels.

Confidence in your own image of yourself makes all the difference in the world!
If the sister is fun and engaging (which is why she is probably your sister to begin with) than she should be talking to the girls.

As a note: If you are a bigger person, you need to wear the appropriate clothing. Spend the extra time looking for jeans that fit you (regardless of what brand name) and buy clothes with shape instead of just big.

I come from a family of bigger and *gifted* women and finding clothes that fit the top and bottom is hard, but it can be done! (I <3 stretch).

If the nationals wants to represent themselves with women who may not represent what the sisterhood means to that person, it could be a very hard decision. One option you may have is to do the work of coats and prep that is constantly going on (a few people are needed for that alone). If the new recruits are not people you would call sister, I would leave. You would know in a little over a week.

Besides, if you are a fun person it may just surprise you. Just because someone is pretty doesn't mean that they are vain and empty.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

It's so weird to me to learn that people actually cared about the quality of the frill of groups during rush. My campus was so heavily tipped toward prior reputation, I can't imagine door chants making a difference.

ETA: thanks, KathyKD for your response.

Welcome

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

Oh, I completely agree. We have to deal with things the way they are now. It just makes me sad...and a bit angry.

Me, too!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

Sometimes at smaller schools, that is what gives a chapter the leg-up. Sad, but true. This is why so many chapters spend so much money on Recruitment, because they are attempting to undermine the rumors that the PNMs have heard on campus about each house.

Oh, I'm not from a small school.

There's a very strong tradition at many big campuses too. And tradition is often a function of reputation earned or unearned.

Frills, no frills, dress up, dress casually, I don't think you're ever going to really get people to consider what you want them to.

But you can make it less wasteful, and that's a positive end right there.