Dirty Rush

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

Really?

How would they punish you? They can't hold your chapter at that school liable. That would be ridiculous. And the PHC on your campus isn't going to care.

ETA: It's kind of futile anyway. Your chapter may be absolutely nothing like the chapter on the other campus, and being that you have no power over the other chapter's MS, it wouldn't make any difference. You could talk up XYZ because your chapter is struggling, and the chapter that PNM meets is the top chapter and she doesn't even have a chance.

[NutBrnHair]

Oh, I agree it could not be enforced, but you can get an "infraction" for just about anything! I'm sure it's happened somewhere, sometime!

It's just like a lawsuit can be filed for any ol thing, but WINNING a case is another thing.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

How would they punish you? They can't hold your chapter at that school liable. That would be ridiculous. And the PHC on your campus isn't going to care.

ETA: It's kind of futile anyway. Your chapter may be absolutely nothing like the chapter on the other campus, and being that you have no power over the other chapter's MS, it wouldn't make any difference. You could talk up XYZ because your chapter is struggling, and the chapter that PNM meets is the top chapter and she doesn't even have a chance.

What if everything Molly said to her friend would be a rush infraction if she was on that campus. Is she protected simply because she is an ABC at a different college?

And for sake of discussion, change the Midwest/Southern scenario to chapters within a very small radius (less than 50 miles). As such, students at each college have a good idea what it going on at the other college.

[cuteASAbug]

If there was a way to monitor recruitment infractions between two or more campuses, then we wouldn't be able to use GC before and during recruitment season.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by TSteven

What if everything Molly said to her friend would be a rush infraction if she was on that campus. Is she protected simply because she is an ABC at a different college?

And for sake of discussion, change the Midwest/Southern scenario to chapters within a very small radius (less than 50 miles). As such, students at each college have a good idea what it going on at the other college.

Again, how would they punish the offender? It's not fair to take it out on the other chapter, and it has no direct affect on the person who's gabbing's rush.

[FaithHopeLove]

I am young (just going to be a freshman), so maybe having not been Gree yet, I am wrong, but the "dirty rush" regulations seem overbearing.

I think the movements towards no frills rush and all of that jazz almost seem to just be less fun. I know all panhel. wants all sororities to have a fair playing field to get members so they want recruitment to be as fair and level as possible where sororities can't win members simply through a fancy rush or by sweet talking. However, I feel like it gets to the point where it is stifling.

I think that having a silence during rush week makes sense, but to start it a month before is rediculous. If a PMN has friends in XYZ, it will influence their decision to some extent regardless of whether or not that friend was allowed to talk to them troughout July.

I understand also why members cannot promise invitations/ bids as - once number allotments whittles down the list - they may have lied to the PNM. However, I think it is crazy that members have to think twice about whether or not they can say something like "Hope to see you tomorrow." That is being friendly and kid to the rushee.

I guess I just think that when I am (hopefully) a sister, it will seem rediculous how fine the line is between a friendly and dirty rush

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Again, how would they punish the offender? It's not fair to take it out on the other chapter, and it has no direct affect on the person who's gabbing's rush.

I wouldn't. Then again, I don't see a need for "enforced silence" outside of the specific (formal) recruitment week.

[adpiucf]

I think the rules seem especially harsh to discourage the idea of dirty rushing. People still talk to their friends, etc.-- they just are discreet and are sensitive about discussing their sororities.

A campus Panhellenic can not punish someone from another school or an alum. They can't fine a chapter for an offense committed by someone who is not a member of their chapter. NPC as a whole, however, says that during Recruitment Week, sorority members must refrain from contact with PNM's-- this includes all members of the sorority at all chapters, and all members from collegiate to alumnae status. That is also unrealistic-- you are going to call your legacy sister or your best friend who just so happens to be an XYZ at College Down-The-Road to talk, speak to your boss who is an alumna of ABC when you show up for work, etc. You can't have complete and total silence because you can't enforce what is not on your campus. But you can be discreet and you can do your best to follow the rules and not push a PNM toward your sorority when you know that to be dirty rushing.

I think the NPC concept of silence is as much about being ethical as it is about being realistic. I support the idea of silence and the enforcement of it on a college campus. This doesn't mean that Suzy Sigma at College-Down-The-Street or your Grandmother from ABC Sorority should dirty rush you, but they should be respectful of letting the PNM make her own choices.

But the Campus Panhellenic can put the fear of God into you. Most people will listen. Some won't. So there will be some dirty rushing, but it won't be done with the knowledge or sanction of that chapter or its recruitment committee. Most importantly, it won't be done on a wide scale.

It may seem silly to not be able to hug someone, say "See you tomorrow," etc. Ridiculous that your chapter will be fined if someone leaves the house with a paper cocktail napkin because it is construed as a "favor." But there's a larger reason and a backstory to why these seemingly idiotic standards are in place. So just accept it and move on. You know the saying that "it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye?" That's exactly why you can't say, "See you tomorrow." Because someone took them literally and took action when they didn't get that invite back. So instead of "See you tomorrow," you are kind and nice and say other more innocous farewells, "Have a great day!" "It was so nice meeting you!" "Bye!"

As for no-frills rush, if you think you are missing out, think again. Recruitment week is a time for you to interview and be interviewed by prospective sisters. You're not here to be entertained with a mini-Broadway musical and to eat gourmet cheesecake. There will be plenty of time for that later. Conversation-based recruitment doesn't just level the playing field, it helps members from every chapter focus on what is important: people.

If sororities can cut out the frills, they can cut out a lot of time and money spent on things that have no bearing on the final result: people. You can dance, sing, cheer, chant and eat all the cheesecake you want on Bid Day and forevermore once your new members come running up to the chapter where they belong.

[33girl]

No-frills rush and silence rules are two totally different things. One really doesn't affect the other. There are campuses with ultra strict silence rules that are still spending tens of thousands of dollars on rush week.

Just so there's no confusion there

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by FaithHopeLove

I guess I just think that when I am (hopefully) a sister, it will seem rediculous how fine the line is between a friendly and dirty rush

I think when (or if) you become a sister, you will feel differently about the situation. Having been in situations where other chapters were "dirty rushing," I know that it can be extremely disheartening when you have put a lot into recruitment. That is why the regulations are there. Not to be mean, but it is somewhat difficult to understand unless you have been a part of recruitment, on BOTH sides.

[UGAalum94]

Okay, I am obviously not going to be dirty rushing anyone, but I frequently spend time in the summer talking up Greek life to girls who I think would be great members but think recruitment is only for Barbies.

And the idea that someone would have a policy that just generally defined that alums can't talk to PNM rivals the policy against certain types of drinking glasses for "referencing alcohol" for dumbest recruitment policy ever.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

And the idea that someone would have a policy that just generally defined that alums can't talk to PNM rivals the policy against certain types of drinking glasses for "referencing alcohol" for dumbest recruitment policy ever.

I agree with you on this one. I've even heard that on some campuses chapters are penalized if PNMs mention speaking to Greek family members and family friends! For instance, if Suzie's mom's best friend is an XYZ and she is overheard by her Pi Chi while telling another PNM that she talked to that XYZ alum about her party schedule, the Pi Chi would then be bound by the strict rule to turn in XYZ for a recruitment violation.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

I agree with you on this one. I've even heard that on some campuses chapters are penalized if PNMs mention speaking to Greek family members and family friends! For instance, if Suzie's mom's best friend is an XYZ and she is overheard by her Pi Chi while telling another PNM that she talked to that XYZ alum about her party schedule, the Pi Chi would then be bound by the strict rule to turn in XYZ for a recruitment violation.

That's just insane.

I don't think that parents and adults should micro-manage a PMNs recruitment or anything, but if it's PNM initiated contact with someone that she knew before who is not a student at the university at the time, I think it's really unlikely to be dirty rushing and it's foolish of the college to try to regulate it.

I think it's great that recruitment is a scheduled and limited series of events and contacts between active sorority women and PNM during the rush process. But get into regulating contacts beyond that seems goofy.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

On our campus we recently changed the rules because it basically consisted of almost three months of "let's avoid all rho gammas and pi chis".

Now we have something called Positive Panhellenic Contact. We talk, we laugh, in and out of our letters on campus, but we do not discuss recruitment/PNMs/anything negative or rude, etc.

We don't go out (off campus) together with letters or whatever but we can go out until the Rho Gammas receive their list of women and after that point it's strict silence. You still can't say "See you tomorrow!" to a PNM after a party or ask where she's attending that night.

I pretty much hated the rules and did my own version of Positive Pan. Contact because PNMs were getting creeped out. We looked like a bunch of frigid bitches that hated each other all summer before. You'd see people running past their Rho Gammas with eyes averted because they were afraid to even look at each other. (Can you make it more obvious? ). I have no problem walking, hugging/kissing/greeting any sorority woman I know because not only are they my constituents, they are my friends. And if some PNM decides that she's certain I'm an XYZ or whatever because she saw me talking to one and then that's what she wants to be, then so be it~hope she has fun on bid day!

[Zillini]

Every Recruitment rule was put in place for valid reasons. 1) To protect a pnm from unfairly and insincerely getting her hopes up only to be disappointed if a bid from ABC doesn't come. 2) To insure that the recruitment process is fair to all Chapters participating. The problem is that it seems like some campuses have gone overboard in enforcing a few of these. I'm sure we've all heard stories of rule enforcement gone amok, getting fined for things that are in reality insignificant and practically uncontrolable.

My personal pet peeve is the Recruitment Rule where you get fined if a pnm leaves the house with a "favor" which has now been interpreted to include a napkin or cup or even a kleenex. I have to wonder if some pnm would seriously keep or cut a house because she left with a used kleenex in her hand? Heck, I doubt even a napkin embossed with the Chapter's name would hold that much sway over a pnm.

Oops, sorry. /tangent