Alabama recruitment fall-out

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by KDCat

Would you want to be an AA woman who joined an NPC sorority in the middle of that hurly burly at Alabama last fall? I wouldn't.

No, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t want to be her mother either.

Originally Posted by KDCat

I'd feel like I was under a microscope with the Crimson, the nationals and the administration all looking at me.

And ^that’s why. I wouldn’t want my daughter to be fodder for the press, especially for those interested in manufacturing a sensational story regardless of the outcome. The article linked at the beginning of this thread is a tabloid-type example of how some continue to milk the controversy:

University Of Alabama’s Sororities Still Resist Integrating
Seven months after allegations of racism were raised, little has changed.

What exactly should have changed since last fall (that hasn’t) to deliver Bama sororities from segregation? In what ways are sororities "resisting?"

Originally Posted by KDCat

I'd feel like I was only being pledged because I was black and not because the sorority really wanted me. I'd feel like my bid was given grudgingly. I'd feel like I was a token member who was giving the chapter(s) cover for being as racist as they wanna be.

Certainly understandable, though according to the media coverage, actives in identified sororities did want a particular AA member. The other girls who accepted bids must have felt the offer was sincere, otherwise, why would they accept?

Originally Posted by KDCat

In the second article posted to this thread, an AA PNM said that she chose to join AKA over an NPC sorority because she didn't feel entirely welcome at NPC sororities. I totally get that and I'd feel the same as her in that situation.

She did not elect to participate in any NPC recruitment, yet takes a swipe at the sororities offering her a bid. If anything, her assumption that she would be “criticized and ostracized” is just divisive speculation – she essentially spit on the chapters who extended an offer. And then she joined a segregated AA sorority:

UA sophomore Khortlan Patterson, a black woman from Houston, was offered multiple bids to join Alabama’s traditionally white Panhellenic sororities but turned them down. “I don’t want to pay $6,000 a year to get criticized and ostracized,” Patterson said. “I don’t want to pay money to be a part of that.”
Instead, Patterson pledged Alpha Kappa Alpha, the first historically African-American sorority. She considered joining a Panhellenic chapter in order to push change from the inside, but ultimately, Patterson decided it would have been more of a trial than an opportunity.

I think Miss Patterson is more interested in media attention than promoting change. Her words will certainly not encourage other AA women to pursue NPC membership.

Originally Posted by KDCat

I don't think the system will ever completely integrate and I don't think that should be our goal.

I’m still trying to figure out what “completely integrate” means. What does it mean? At what threshold will a chapter be considered integrated?

I can’t think of a more favorable situation for a minority PNM to receive a bid from a historically white sorority than UofA rush this fall. And I can’t think of a more UNfavorable situation for PNMs and chapters in terms of media and administrative attention than UofA rush this fall.

It may be a very stressful fall recruitment for all concerned. If the chapters offer a bid to an AA PNM, they face accusations of “tokenism.” If they release an AA PNM, they face accusations of racism. The AA PNMs face the prospect of scrutiny by onlookers (administrative and otherwise) and unwanted attention by those seeking a story.

[LAblondeGPhi]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

Those numbers appear to be old stats regarding degree distribution by race – these may be more up-to-date and detailed:

....
I feel like any racial barriers to the NPC recruitment process have been moved aside as much as is institutionally possible. The question I have raised, however, is . . . will this be enough to accomplish that goal?

This was a nice rebuttal, and I think we agree on more points than we disagree. The data I sourced was indeed a few years old, and it looks like ASU is getting *a little* more diverse, which is a good thing.

I'll still stand by AOII Angel's comment - in working with Southern California chapters, I have never seen race as a cut and dry issue to the point where chapters would feel ostracized for taking a particular PNM. I have never seen circumstances where chapters even knew if a PNM would be the "first" whatever pledged to their chapter.

However, I will concede that I have seen Greek communities start to take notice when a chapter starts to become "majority minority". Is this also a form of racism? Yes, I believe it is. It may not affect women so strongly at the individual level (as it appears is the case at Alabama), but in aggregate it still affects the population.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by LAblondeGPhi

I'll still stand by AOII Angel's comment - in working with Southern California chapters, I have never seen race as a cut and dry issue to the point where chapters would feel ostracized for taking a particular PNM. I have never seen circumstances where chapters even knew if a PNM would be the "first" whatever pledged to their chapter.

I didn't challenge AOII Angel's comment about Southern California, but I would agree with her that racial diversity may be more common in smaller, newer chapters (likely with far smaller recruitments).

[carnation]

Originally Posted by Low D Flat

That's been my experience, too. It seems to be true even on campuses where most chapters COB. My theory is that, as noted upthread, "top-tier" NPC chapters sometimes have more of a cookie-cutter skinny white look (sometimes also blonde). The weaker recruiting chapters are more likely to be diverse in terms of appearance and body type, even if all the members are white. If I'm a nonwhite woman, even if I'm skinny and Hollywood pretty, I might gravitate toward the WRC where there's more than one OK way to look, and it doesn't seem like fitting a visual mold is key to belonging.

I agree that there are idiots who "don't see race," but not on this thread, so far.

Your experience? You said you weren't even Greek.

[Low D Flat]

You have never been privy to an NPC membership selection, and I consider your speculation to be way off-base.

Well, that'a fair. But can't we all agree that some chapters have a ton of slender, conventionally gorgeous white women? You don't really need to be in the back room to see that. I'm not making any claims about what the chapters' criteria are. I'm just saying, I'm a skinny white woman, and I've sometimes felt awkward or intimidated around groups of highly polished skinny white women with their perfect long straight hair, even when they are super friendly. It's not a great leap to suppose that it might be even harder for a PNM to feel confident in that kind of group if she looks noticeably different, especially when she's 18 and getting a quick first impression at recruitment.

It makes me think of a related social pattern. Not that long ago, there was a WRC among the Princeton eating clubs. This was one of the sign-in clubs, where PNMs just pick the one they want, with no selection by the upperclassmen. The two groups that kept this WRC alive for years were the marching band and the African-American students (who, then and now, join the eating clubs at a much lower rate than white students do). Band members at all-nerd schools like Princeton are REALLY nerdy. I don't think it's coincidental that the black students who did join a historically white club chose, from a white point of view, the uncoolest one. Band geeks sometimes do a better job than popular kids of making everybody feel welcome. (This club eventually went under; I don't know if the more mainstream clubs becoming more inclusive of African-Americans had anything to do with that.)

[AOII Angel]

You are finding every reason to oppose the use of COB to improve diversity with no real basis. Do you actually advise any chapters in a position to COB? If you qualified your statement that it may not always be a good time, I'd take it, but you didn't. You completely threw out COB like offering bids to minorities during COB would somehow always lead to tokenism. The discussion has been how to lead all NPC chapters to a more diverse position, not just Univ of Alabama. There are MANY campuses where COB actually does work to improve diversity in chapters. Your argument has no basis. An AA member should no more feel upset that she is valued for the experiences she will bring to a chapter than a white member because she's Polly Popular and will bring all the boys to the yard. There is always a reason why a member is selected. Pretending otherwise is naive.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

There is always a reason why a member is selected. Pretending otherwise is naive.

Not advising, but spent my college career in a chapter that pretty much always COBed. And the reason why we offered women bids (including several minority women) was because we liked them and thought they'd both give something to the chapter AND get something from it. Not because of a certain trait they possessed, but who they were overall. If that makes me and my sisters naive, thank God we're naive.

What KDCat seemed to be saying that I objected to was "ask all your black friends to COB events and not your white friends. " If it takes COBing to get chapter members to make friends with people of another race, that's their failing as humans, not as sorority members.

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Not advising, but spent my college career in a chapter that pretty much always COBed. And the reason why we offered women bids (including several minority women) was because we liked them and thought they'd both give something to the chapter AND get something from it. Not because of a certain trait they possessed, but who they were overall. If that makes me and my sisters naive, thank God we're naive.

What KDCat seemed to be saying that I objected to was "ask all your black friends to COB events and not your white friends. " If it takes COBing to get chapter members to make friends with people of another race, that's their failing as humans, not as sorority members.

Nope. Not what I said.

It doesn't hurt to push your chapter members to to ask AA women to COB. If you don't think about recruiting diverse candidates, it often doesn't happen - not at work and not in sororities. That doesn't mean you don't include other candidates as well.

[AZTheta]

^^^^ What DBB said times a bajillion. And also, in response to the "media attention" paragraph.

It's too early for popcorn, isn't it?

[Hartofsec]

Miss Patterson made other assumptions as well regarding how she would be treated in these chapters:

“No one’s going to say flat out, ‘You can’t hang out with us because we don’t consider you to be our sister.’ But I think that in their actions it would probably be communicated in that way.”

I feel that her disparaging comments and assumptions are quite discouraging to potential AA PNMs. And I don't see the value of that in any effort to foster diversity in traditionally white sororities. It will attract media attention, however, and plaster one's condemning quote in size 48 font across a picture of sorority row.

As I was reading, I was reminded of Kimberly Dandridge. If two states and Greek systems might be depicted as similar -- it is these two. Miss Dandridge has been able to speak about the challenges of being an AA PNM, and also about her experience within her chapter and on her campus. Her experience may inspire future AA PNMs rather than frighten them away.

[Low D Flat]

Your experience? You said you weren't even Greek.

That's right. I'm a higher ed professional. You don't need to be Greek to see who has joined where on campuses where you live and work. The topic here isn't chapter operations, voting, etc. Do you disagree with anything I've observed?

[carnation]

Originally Posted by Low D Flat

That's right. I'm a higher ed professional. You don't need to be Greek to see who has joined where on campuses where you live and work. The topic here isn't chapter operations, voting, etc. Do you disagree with anything I've observed?

Sure, several times since you joined. Many mods have commented on it.

[als463]

Originally Posted by carnation

Sure, several times since you joined. Many mods have commented on it.

I didn't even realize Low D Flat wasn't Greek. That seems odd, to me, to be handing out advice regarding Greek life because you work in higher education but, never went Greek.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by als463

I didn't even realize Low D Flat wasn't Greek. That seems odd, to me, to be handing out advice regarding Greek life because you work in higher education but, never went Greek.

Agree.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by als463

I didn't even realize Low D Flat wasn't Greek. That seems odd, to me, to be handing out advice regarding Greek life because you work in higher education but, never went Greek.

There is another poster on here doling out recruitment advice, and her signature really implies that she is Greek as well, and she isn't.