Joint account or separate account

[RaggedyAnn]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I know I'm going to sound all fuddy-duddy bemoaning the downfall of today's society, but I can't help but think that issues like this make divorce more common. Not just the actual financial issues, but the fact that we have trained ourselves to CYA in regards to marriage. We go in with contingency plans and ready to bail if we feel it necessary. We make it easy because then if things don't work out, we can shrug our shoulders and move on. What would happen if people once again treated marriage of less of an experiment and more of a serious commitment? I feel that if you're seriously ready to make that kind of commitment to someone, you should be ready to tie yourselves irrevocably to that person. And this is coming from someone who many people would feel has had plenty of legitimate "excuses" to throw in the towel and not look back.

/soapbox sermon

Originally Posted by 33girl

If you're that far apart on money, IMO you shouldn't get married in the first place. It's SO much heavier than people realize. Even if you have separate accounts, if you're saying every other day "it's MY money and I'll do what I want with it" that's not a healthy relationship. Maybe you're not fighting-fighting, but you're still feeling the disapproval of the other person.

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

And this is just random. But people are the accumulation of their life experiences. They come to relationships preprogrammed from all of their love connections. They observe how to love from their parents, who may or may not have been a good illustration of what love looks like. And they've learned about it from how they've been treated in past relationships. Over time, these are things that will eventually be shown if you hang out with the person long enough to see their true colors. Is the relationship/marriage going to be perfect? No it is not. But forming a permanent link is only one step in the life of a relationship. Romance must continue, the desire to solve conflicts must continue, and the constant search of what will please the other person must continue. Never take the other person for granted -the moment you do, you are in danger of being either filed away or deleted and replaced. Bottom line, if it doesn't fit, don't force it. You will never be able to fix the other person. So, consider whether you can live with your potential partner as is. If not, move on. There is no shame in that.

I agree with all of this.

When Andy and I got engaged, we moved in with each other to save money. We opened up a joint account for joint expenses. When we got married, we joined all of our finances. I kept my own credit cards and a couple of bills in my name, so that I maintained a credit rating in case he dies before me. We have a weekly meeting where we review finances, but unless it is a major expense, we don't ask before we spend money...but I HATE debt and Andy is a saver, so we're a good match. Now I am a stay at home Mom and I don't feel at all that it is his money. Andy has never made a comment to me to make me feel like I am less of a partner in the relationship. We both work hard; it's just his provides outside income. I provide my income in different ways, by shopping sales and cutting coupons.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I think this depends what state you are in. IANAL, but certain rights of property ownership are granted in the Illinois Civil Union bill, and I can't remember the details. In any case, I'm sure you have a real lawyer advising you :-)

I handle money and live-in pays me appropriate rent (I own the condo). I used to try to make him buy groceries and stuff, but it was so stressful, and now he just gives me the cash.

Yes yes and we are in Illinois.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Like I was saying earlier, it's much more than just that, for me. Honestly, just based on the little that you've posted about your second husband still living at home would have been a red flag for me. In every break up I've seen, there's always blame and finger pointing at the other person, yet people rarely want to point the finger at themselves. I also think that a lot of people don't truly know themselves. Knowing who you are is huge because if you don't know yourself, it will be hard for anyone else to get to know you. After all, how can you (in general) share your heart if you don't know what's really in it? For the most part, you attract what you are and what you think you deserve. The truth can be painful to absorb, but it is still truth. People instinctively know what they can get away with in your presence. They follow your cues. If you don't demand commitment and respect, they won't give it. Also never demand what you are not willing to give yourself. Relationships are always about giving. To get what you want, you sometimes have to give it first. How it begins is a good indication of how it will finish. In other words, what you see is what you'll get. I don't know much about your ex husbands except for what you've posted. I also don't know you, so I don't know what you look for in a potential partner or what you contributed to the failure of both marriages (besides choosing both as your husbands).

And this is just random. But people are the accumulation of their life experiences. They come to relationships preprogrammed from all of their love connections. They observe how to love from their parents, who may or may not have been a good illustration of what love looks like. And they've learned about it from how they've been treated in past relationships. Over time, these are things that will eventually be shown if you hang out with the person long enough to see their true colors. Is the relationship/marriage going to be perfect? No it is not. But forming a permanent link is only one step in the life of a relationship. Romance must continue, the desire to solve conflicts must continue, and the constant search of what will please the other person must continue. Never take the other person for granted -the moment you do, you are in danger of being either filed away or deleted and replaced. Bottom line, if it doesn't fit, don't force it. You will never be able to fix the other person. So, consider whether you can live with your potential partner as is. If not, move on. There is no shame in that.

For someone who has actually never been married, you sure have a lot to say about it. People who grew up in families that aren't perfect are worthy of love, too. There are also many people who grew up in terrible circumstances who go on to LEARN from those experiences and make excellent spouses. Your formula sounds good on paper but doesn't work in reality. I should know since I'm 9 years happily married to a man with a horrible family that he does NOT want to emulate. My husband, however, is the smartest, most loving man that I can imagine ever meeting. If I passed him up because of rules that sound like they came straight from a how to dating book, I'd be kicking myself right now.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

People who grew up in families that aren't perfect are worthy of love, too.

Yep, I agree. But there's no such thing as a perfect family, though.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

There are also many people who grew up in terrible circumstances who go on to LEARN from those experiences and make excellent spouses.

True. But if it's going to work, I still believe you need to be compatible with that person, regardless of what kind of family they came from.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Your formula sounds good on paper but doesn't work in reality.

It's not "my formula". I follow biblical scripture (the best way I know how to), I enjoy reading it, and it gives me great wisdom and instruction in all aspects of my life. I agree, it looks awesome on paper, but where I disagree, it does work in reality, because I've seen it work in my parents marriage, and in my pastor's. Two couples I get my advice from.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I should know since I'm 9 years happily married to a man with a horrible family that he does NOT want to emulate. My husband, however, is the smartest, most loving man that I can imagine ever meeting. If I passed him up because of rules that sound like they came straight from a how to dating book, I'd be kicking myself right now.

Absolutely, I totally agree with you. That's great you feel that way about your husband. I would hope that you do and vice versa. You've been married for 9 years, so you should know something about it. However, no one (and this includes both you and your husband) comes into this world knowing everything there is to know about relationships. In fact, I think we look more like empty computers when we are first born. No programs have been installed, pretty much, if you want to look at it that way. All we have is the capacity to record and store all the information we receive. Right or wrong, that data is stored based on our observances, and that's pretty much what makes up our programming. We live out what we retain (unless somewhere down the line we learn a better way, as you've mentioned with your husband), and to be quite honest with you, sometimes it's a good thing and sometimes it's not. That all depends on who you seek for advice, or who you learn it from.

Nope, I've never been married, but for those single people, who have never been married, such as myself, the secret to taking advice is actually quite plain and simple. Take advice from someone who's been successful at accomplishing what you want to accomplish, and this isn't based only on relationships. It should apply to all aspects of your life. Since we're focused on relationships here, find someone who has a successful marriage or relationship and use that person as a source of sound counsel (I don't mean "use" as in take advantage of). I'm not going to sit around with a bunch of other women who are not having success with men and expect to come away with healthy words of wisdom. I just think the quickest way to end a depressing drama is to not let it begin. Seek counsel from experienced people in your lives.

In response to your other comment, I get my information on relationships from "dating books" (plural). Mainly from Corinthians, Genesis, and Proverbs. Probably not the "dating book" you were thinking. I don't just use the bible for dating purposes though. I like to use it for all aspects of my life. So far, it's been working for me.


Congrats on 9 years of marriage. May you have many more.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

It's not "my formula". I follow biblical scripture (the best way I know how to), I enjoy reading it, and it gives me great wisdom and instruction in all aspects of my life. I agree, it looks awesome on paper, but where I disagree, it does work in reality, because I've seen it work in my parents marriage, and in my pastor's. Two couples I get my advice from.

In response to your other comment, I get my information on relationships from "dating books" (plural). Mainly from Corinthians, Genesis, and Proverbs. Probably not the "dating book" you were thinking. I don't just use the bible for dating purposes though. I like to use it for all aspects of my life. So far, it's been working for me.

The roles and effectiveness of religious doctrine. That is a thread in and of itself.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The roles and effectiveness of religious doctrine. That is a thread in and of itself.

Besides, she left our the quintessential biblical dating book: Song of Songs (or Solomon, depending on your version)

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Besides, she left our the quintessential biblical dating book: Song of Songs (or Solomon, depending on your version)

I read it, just not as much as Genesis, Proverbs, and Corinthians. Great book, though.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Besides, she left our the quintessential biblical dating book: Song of Songs (or Solomon, depending on your version)

And these types of discussions continue to be tautological.

It works!
How do you know?
Because it worked for me!

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

And these types of discussions continue to be tautological.

It works!
How do you know?
Because it worked for me!

Yep. And that's pretty much the entire contents of this thread in one post.

[preciousjeni]

Living on one income and banking the other is certainly ideal, but in reality it may not be possible. In my family's case, our incomes separately have either not reached the self-sufficiency level in our county or barely reached it.

In my county, for a family of two, poverty is in the range of $10,000 and self-sufficiency is in the range of $35,000.

The median household income in my county is $78,218 (as of 2009).

ETA: We have no debt except for a minimal mortgage on an 800 sq. ft. condo. We ended up buying, because rent in this county is too damn high.

[summer_gphib]

We have a single checking account, and it's joint. All the accounts we have are joint accounts. It's kind of a pain sometimes, but it's worth it for the transparency. My parents always had separate accounts, and my Mom has always screwed my dad. She would hide money, get credit cards in his name, and wracked up over 25k in credit card debt without him knowing. He only found out when he was checking into buying a rental property, and looked at his credit score. He's never made a late payment in his life.. he's Mr. Financial Responsibility. She on the other hand, has been sued for not making payments. Growing up with that hot mess, I wanted complete transparency. Actually I'm the one that handles all the money, anyway. LOL So it probably wouldn't matter. My hubby couldn't balance a check book if he tried. Before we got married, he thought he could balance it by calling the bank and finding out the balance... that's how much money he had to spend. LOL

[Cen1aur 1963]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I get my information on relationships from "dating books" (plural). Mainly from Corinthians, Genesis, and Proverbs. Probably not the "dating book" you were thinking. I don't just use the bible for dating purposes though. I like to use it for all aspects of my life. So far, it's been working for me.

I had and still have a pastor who teaches from the same principles you follow, but yet he was fucking around on his wife LOL. It was with this woman who sat in the very front, right in front of him. I guess she was wearing short skirts, crossing her legs etc. and what not. Basically, he was preaching the word of God with a rock hard dick, and then wasn't strong enough to turn away. He boned her, not once, but this had been going on for a long time, until he was caught hittin' it in his office late at night. Probably slappin' that ass with the bible saying "who's your daddy?" LOL

I feel everything you're saying, and you seem to be a cool person, and are probably a good girlfriend, but I'm just saying that just because you think you have the right person, be careful because that isn't always the case. A pastor to me teaching doctrine from the bible is no different than a professor teaching mathematics. Two human beings teaching shit that you can use to better yourself. Which is why I still stayed at the church because he's still kickin' knowledge. The fact that he's not or didn't practice what he's preaching has no affect on me.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

And these types of discussions continue to be tautological.

It works!
How do you know?
Because it worked for me!

LOL. True, but I think this is true in most of the threads I've read. It all comes down to what works for you in whatever. But folks tend to think whatever works for them should work for somebody else which isn't always the case.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Cen1aur 1963

LOL. True, but I think this is true in most of the threads I've read. It all comes down to what works for you in whatever. But folks tend to think whatever works for them should work for somebody else which isn't always the case.

Yes, this is an opinion board.

There are things in life that are not so subjective. Those things don't make for exciting discussions of opinions.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Yep, I agree. But there's no such thing as a perfect family, though.


True. But if it's going to work, I still believe you need to be compatible with that person, regardless of what kind of family they came from.


It's not "my formula". I follow biblical scripture (the best way I know how to), I enjoy reading it, and it gives me great wisdom and instruction in all aspects of my life. I agree, it looks awesome on paper, but where I disagree, it does work in reality, because I've seen it work in my parents marriage, and in my pastor's. Two couples I get my advice from.


Absolutely, I totally agree with you. That's great you feel that way about your husband. I would hope that you do and vice versa. You've been married for 9 years, so you should know something about it. However, no one (and this includes both you and your husband) comes into this world knowing everything there is to know about relationships. In fact, I think we look more like empty computers when we are first born. No programs have been installed, pretty much, if you want to look at it that way. All we have is the capacity to record and store all the information we receive. Right or wrong, that data is stored based on our observances, and that's pretty much what makes up our programming. We live out what we retain (unless somewhere down the line we learn a better way, as you've mentioned with your husband), and to be quite honest with you, sometimes it's a good thing and sometimes it's not. That all depends on who you seek for advice, or who you learn it from.

Nope, I've never been married, but for those single people, who have never been married, such as myself, the secret to taking advice is actually quite plain and simple. Take advice from someone who's been successful at accomplishing what you want to accomplish, and this isn't based only on relationships. It should apply to all aspects of your life. Since we're focused on relationships here, find someone who has a successful marriage or relationship and use that person as a source of sound counsel (I don't mean "use" as in take advantage of). I'm not going to sit around with a bunch of other women who are not having success with men and expect to come away with healthy words of wisdom. I just think the quickest way to end a depressing drama is to not let it begin. Seek counsel from experienced people in your lives.

In response to your other comment, I get my information on relationships from "dating books" (plural). Mainly from Corinthians, Genesis, and Proverbs. Probably not the "dating book" you were thinking. I don't just use the bible for dating purposes though. I like to use it for all aspects of my life. So far, it's been working for me.


Congrats on 9 years of marriage. May you have many more.

I have no problem with you following your own ideas, but you sure have a lot to say about other people's marriages. Also, the funny thing about your rules being biblical...I've never picked up the bible and found any of that written there. I have, however, seen women married to men chosen for them by there fathers. Sometimes judging people too much by people from their past can give you the wrong picture. I can name tons of people who were bitten in the ass by that mistake. The family does not make the man, and full proof plans rarely are. Relationships happen and if your lucky, you use your brain as much as your heart to choose your mate.

[honeychile]

FWIW, cheerfulgreek and anyone else who cares, we discussed MOMO with our pastor/counselor during our premarital meetings. He thinks it's a good idea.