Gays in fraternites (pt. 2)

[starang21]

Originally Posted by jlenoconel

OK, so its ok for you to date black women and me not date a guy. It would have been funny to see you grow up in the 60's!

who said it wasn't ok? are you high, son?

and are you saying that me dating black women is like being gay? dumbest thing i've ever read on this board. and that's saying a lot.

people are entitled to be prejudiced. like i said, you're the one trying to join an organization where a good portion of the people in it find what you do disgusting. you don't see me rushing to join the klan, do you?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

This is only partially responsive to you, DST.

I've been around a fairly substantial number of gay people, at least for folks like me. Meaning that I've worked with them, gone to school with them, was friendly/hated them on some social level, not simply that I knew somebody around was gay. All but one were liberal. A few of them I genuinely liked, and a few were "flamboyant" and made me feel constantly uncomfortable.

Yet, despite knowing a fair number of gay people and having some gay people I'd gladly call friends, their attraction to the opposite sex still grosses me out. I don't loathe them, I don't muster up some distaste, it just naturally weirds me out. So why then would someone want to live either A) in a situation where most other people in the fraternity disapprove and are repulsed by your lifestyle or B) in a situation where they have to act covertly?

Okaaaaaay....

*******************

Anywho, aside from a few colleagues and associates, I do not have any friends or close associates who I know to be homosexual. So by no means am I saying that people have to go out of their way to be friends with anyone just because. At the same time, the "some of my best friends are gay" approach is funny just as the "some of my best friends are (insert some other minority group)."

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

I think you probably already knew this, but that does not describe me at all.

DUH and that's why people usually have certain opinions.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by jlenoconel

I agree with this. Oh, and the person who tried calling me Sally or nelly or whatever can go screw. I have a right to be on this board because I am in college and I wanna have a say. I understand what a fraternity is and I understand how "macho" its supposed to be. If I was in a fraternity, my boyfriend or whatever wouldn't be showing up, why would he? Its up to people how they feel anyway, I obviously can't stop what you feel. I would just like to see the day when you are in the position of being ridiculed for some reason and see how you respond. Also, I am not really politically active in any type of community i.e. the gay community because I don't think that just because I am homosexual, that I should be in any community. But, lets say hypothetically that I wanted to join a fraternity, would the fact I prefer men get me kicked out. Even if I didn't have a boyfriend or whatever and kept my sex life private.

The funny thing is, most people (mainly other men) are afraid of homosexuality because of what has been portrayed in the media, or by gossip. Did you even know that some gay men don't like or engage in anal sex? Did you know there are plenty of men out there who engage in homosexual acts in similar social circles to yours but clock themselves as straight? Do you know the amount of men who get paid to perform homosexual acts for money who say they are straight?!! You know very little by the looks of things. I am not effeminate buddy, sorry to rain on YOUR parade. I lift weights and I am not really interested in fashion or anything like that. I can be sensitive, but so what? I am young and inexperienced when it comes to some things in life.

Fraternities are obviously a very elitist, Republican type of organization. Sad really, because if you guys are Christians but still excluding people for small things like their sexuality, then you are fools. Jesus told us not to judge others but obviously you are still doing that. Its OK anyway, I will never meet any of you guys ever anyway, so its no skin off of my nose. You can feel the way you do, its your choice. But ask yourself a real question - what is it about homosexuality that makes you so nervous? I mean nervous enough to exclude another human being from your special, little organization. I don't allow people to make fun of me for preferring men, I have standards and I don't accept everything about the gay community either. Maybe one day I will join a fraternity or something similar, and I will keep my sexuality private... out of respect of others, not because I think its shameful. Thats only if all the straight guys don't go on about fucking tits and stuff like that all day because I would be mightily offended if I hear that shit, degrading women and all!

You have your own image of fraternities based on stereotypes or what you've been exposed. People have their own image of homosexual men based on stereotypes or what they've been exposed. It's par for the course.

You came to GreekChat to pick people's brains and point the finger--and you're not even in a fraternity or admitting to considering joining one. I guess we all need our hobbies.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by starang21

no, it's not. you're delusional. and you're trying to join an organization where a significant portion of the membership disagrees with your lifestyle. and yes, that means they disagree with you liking men.

and i do prefer black women over white women. why would i join an organization where most of the membership would vilify me because of such? if you're so adamant in going against the grain, then you're gonna have to deal with the repurcussions of such action and thus should quit complaining. you know what you're getting into.

Buddy ol' pal.

Why would you join an organization that was inserting itself into every aspect of your life? I understand that hetero and homosexual are seen as different lifestyles to a lot of people. But when you take the biological sex and social gender aspects out of the equation, the average homosexual person who isn't flamboyant is arguably doing the same things as the average heterosexual person who isn't flamboyant.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Okaaaaaay....

*******************

Anywho, aside from a few colleagues and associates, I do not have any friends or close associates who I know to be homosexual. So by no means am I saying that people have to go out of their way to be friends with anyone just because. At the same time, the "some of my best friends are gay" approach is funny just as the "some of my best friends are (insert some other minority group)."

Sure it is, when used the same way. I think that approach may actually hold some validity, when true, but it has become a crutch for white folks trying to avoid the "racist" label, most often.

I'm simply responding to your statement, which was "Despite that fact, heterosexuals don't get pigeon holed and neither should homosexuals. Someone who has truly been exposed to the diversity of opinions held by people of different sexual orientations and masculinities-femininities will understand that."

As someone who has been around what I consider to be a fair number of gay people, I find that though it is incorrect to pigeon hole them, they're a smaller group with some common concerns, so they certainly tend to share some common characteristics. My assumptions and experience indicate this, and though not infallible, I think it is reasonable to believe this is reality. So while saying "my fraternity believes this, and gay people all believe that, so we're not gonna take gay people" is based on some false assumptions, it is also quite possibly pretty accurate in effect.

As with my first response, this wasn't necessarily tailored to your post, but your assertions seem tangentially related to the common "but there may be black/gay/whatever people who are just like your fraternity" argument, so I included that in my reply.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Buddy ol' pal.

Why would you join an organization that was inserting itself into every aspect of your life? I understand that hetero and homosexual are seen as different lifestyles to a lot of people. But when you take the biological sex and social gender aspects out of the equation, the average homosexual person who isn't flamboyant is arguably doing the same things as the average heterosexual person who isn't flamboyant.

of course not. anal sex and head is fundamentally the same act whether it be between a >insert any combo of man and woman<. taking out the social gender aspect and you just sex.

that being said, many heterosexual men are disgusted with homosexual sex. that doesn't make them homo phobes or even closet gays. they're just disgusted with it. i personally find it repulsing. i wouldn't vote in an openly gay member. i'm sure homosexuals know this prior to joining. and if they think that the world is a big kumbaya camp fire with everyone holding hands, they have another thing coming. right, wrong, whatever. that's how it is.

like i said, if this fool is so adamant about joining a fraternity, he/she/shim better know that many of hers/his/shims brothers will disagree with it and not want to be around it. nature of the beast, whether or not he/she/shim wants to accept it. it's their decision whether or not they choose membership. in fact, it's very similar to a non>insert race< joining a predmoninantly >insert race<GLO.

now come over.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

As with my first response, this wasn't necessarily tailored to your post

The only part of my post that was in direct reference to you was the "Okaaaaaay...."

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

The only part of my post that was in direct reference to you was the "Okaaaaaay...."

Like I said, tangential. I'm not really worried who it was directed to, it just brought up other things I wanted to talk about.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Like I said, tangential. I'm not really worried who it was directed to, it just brought up other things I wanted to talk about.

Yeah well since you kept giving me a play-by-play of your responses, I wanted to let you know.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Yeah well since you kept giving me a play-by-play of your responses, I wanted to let you know.

And so you have.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by jlenoconel

I agree with this. Oh, and the person who tried calling me Sally or nelly or whatever can go screw. I have a right to be on this board because I am in college and I wanna have a say. I understand what a fraternity is and I understand how "macho" its supposed to be. If I was in a fraternity, my boyfriend or whatever wouldn't be showing up, why would he? Its up to people how they feel anyway, I obviously can't stop what you feel. I would just like to see the day when you are in the position of being ridiculed for some reason and see how you respond. Also, I am not really politically active in any type of community i.e. the gay community because I don't think that just because I am homosexual, that I should be in any community. But, lets say hypothetically that I wanted to join a fraternity, would the fact I prefer men get me kicked out. Even if I didn't have a boyfriend or whatever and kept my sex life private.

The funny thing is, most people (mainly other men) are afraid of homosexuality because of what has been portrayed in the media, or by gossip. Did you even know that some gay men don't like or engage in anal sex? Did you know there are plenty of men out there who engage in homosexual acts in similar social circles to yours but clock themselves as straight? Do you know the amount of men who get paid to perform homosexual acts for money who say they are straight?!! You know very little by the looks of things. I am not effeminate buddy, sorry to rain on YOUR parade. I lift weights and I am not really interested in fashion or anything like that. I can be sensitive, but so what? I am young and inexperienced when it comes to some things in life.

Fraternities are obviously a very elitist, Republican type of organization. Sad really, because if you guys are Christians but still excluding people for small things like their sexuality, then you are fools. Jesus told us not to judge others but obviously you are still doing that. Its OK anyway, I will never meet any of you guys ever anyway, so its no skin off of my nose. You can feel the way you do, its your choice. But ask yourself a real question - what is it about homosexuality that makes you so nervous? I mean nervous enough to exclude another human being from your special, little organization. I don't allow people to make fun of me for preferring men, I have standards and I don't accept everything about the gay community either. Maybe one day I will join a fraternity or something similar, and I will keep my sexuality private... out of respect of others, not because I think its shameful. Thats only if all the straight guys don't go on about fucking tits and stuff like that all day because I would be mightily offended if I hear that shit, degrading women and all!

You just said that you are NOT in a Fraternity.
This IS a board for members, and interested parties, of GLO's.
I need my morning coffee real bad now.....

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

This is interesting. I've always wondered about the types of issues that arise from having 2 sisters dating. Like what happens if two dating sisters break up? Or what about house-related issues? Like, I know in our orgs we have rules against males in sisters' bedrooms, but what happens in this case?

There's a LOT of dating and hooking up, both hetero and homo, that goes on in many Alpha Phi Omega chapters that I know of. Usually when someone breaks up, one person of the past couple almost always drops out of the fraternity. The person who has the most popularity within the chapter usually does a lot of shit talking about the ex and try to get all of the members to turn on them. It can get really nasty. I'm guessing the same thing would happen to members who date and break up in single-sex social fraternities and sororities.

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

This is interesting. I've always wondered about the types of issues that arise from having 2 sisters dating. Like what happens if two dating sisters break up? Or what about house-related issues? Like, I know in our orgs we have rules against males in sisters' bedrooms, but what happens in this case?

It's an easy rule to live with b/c our sorority doesn't have a house

[62231]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

LOL, SEC. Some of your posts make me but I also tend to be a little tickled by your honesty and obvious self-awareness.

It does get me into trouble every now and then, but unfortunately for many, not enough to shut me up.