Is hazing the best way?

[AGDee]

While I know that sororities are different in many ways, my personal opinion is that too much time is spent with the pledge classes bonding to each other rather than the group as a whole (pledges and initiated members) bonding together. This leads to (what I see as) a bizarre separation within groups where they identify more with their class than with the chapter as a whole. I think really good team building involves teams that include pledges and members together. Team building exercises that can work: ropes courses, contests, working together on something like a Habitat for Humanity house, a float for Homecoming, intramural sports, an improvement to your house, etc. Something that 1) requires teamwork to complete it, 2) gives each team member a feeling of accomplishment and 3) actually completes something useful or meaningful. Incorporate your fraternity's values into it somehow, make it purposeful. If you really want to focus on the pledges, then include their big brothers too for more of a bonding experience with them as a group.

There are books and books of team building activities that you can do, quick programs and longer ones if you really want to do that kind of thing. The corporate world uses them a lot and it's not bad experience to be familiar with them BUT... most employees roll their eyes and grumble in private groups about them too. We can all do stuff like assemble a puzzle without speaking to each other. Women are more touchy feely and respond nicely to things like "A letter to my sister" where they all write a letter to another member telling them what they appreciate about them. I think that men would respond better to actually performing a task because male friendships, by nature, are more about doing activities together rather than talking. But make them meaningful/purposeful tasks, not just BS stuff that doesn't mean anything.

[AGDee]

FWIW, I am not always replying to the OP precisely, but also to others who may have similar situations and may stumble on this thread while looking for ways to turn around a program. I'm also sometimes trying to generate a discussion of the topic in general.

Generally, I think "How do we turn hazing programs into non-hazing programs" to be valuable discussions in a risk management forum.

[djpsk21]

Well, thank you all for your comments. I have received the obvious answers of check with your nationals and talk to your members, which is what I am doing. I guess I was just foolishly hoping that others may be excited to share success stories from their pledgeship or their dealings with ending hazing...

"What works for some may not work for others" is a very true statement...so I am trying to learn what works for others to help build an ideal program, taking bits and pieces from success stories to find something that DOES work for this group.

In regards to change...there really isn't a time line as to when change can happen...Innovation must be at the forefront of peoples minds. It is not like if the change doesn't occur by a certain a date, one should just 'give up'. Considering a large portion of the pledge class won't form til the Spring, this is truly the ideal time to start working changes.

I also don't see what the shocker is in regards to someone new coming and being given the task to change things...a fresh perspective is often what is needed and if anything, I think these men, my brothers, should be commended for taking that leap of faith and turning to someone who has not been tainted by the current way of thinking to help lead a culture change.

Finally, I must say that I am not trying to "control" what is being said but I will readily admit that yes, I was hoping to guide the conversation in a more focused direction. I don't see the harm in trying to bring the conversation back to the main focus.

So, I will ask one last time, if you have any good experiences involving pledging that did not involve hazing or know of any good "team building" exercises where people are brought together, please share them. We can only learn from each other. Let ME and MY BROTHERS decide what will and will not work for us. We are NOT trying to steal ideas, but rather create a "sounding board" or "Spring Board" for ideas so we can better develop the pledge process. As I mentioned earlier, with the brothers coming from a culture of hazing...they don't know what else to do...though they do agree they want to do something different.

Feel free to PM me if you do not feel comfortable sharing here. I am not trying to start a war, overstep by bounds or be rude. I honestly came here hoping to learn. Too many times, Greek organizations just turn to themselves for answers...this is an opportunity for true Greek Collaboration to help build a better Greek future for all.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by djpsk21

Well, thank you all for your comments. I have received the obvious answers of check with your nationals and talk to your members, which is what I am doing. I guess I was just foolishly hoping that others may be excited to share success stories from their pledgeship or their dealings with ending hazing...

"What works for some may not work for others" is a very true statement...so I am trying to learn what works for others to help build an ideal program, taking bits and pieces from success stories to find something that DOES work for this group.

In regards to change...there really isn't a time line as to when change can happen...Innovation must be at the forefront of peoples minds. It is not like if the change doesn't occur by a certain a date, one should just 'give up'. Considering a large portion of the pledge class won't form til the Spring, this is truly the ideal time to start working changes.

I also don't see what the shocker is in regards to someone new coming and being given the task to change things...a fresh perspective is often what is needed and if anything, I think these men, my brothers, should be commended for taking that leap of faith and turning to someone who has not been tainted by the current way of thinking to help lead a culture change.

Finally, I must say that I am not trying to "control" what is being said but I will readily admit that yes, I was hoping to guide the conversation in a more focused direction. I don't see the harm in trying to bring the conversation back to the main focus.

So, I will ask one last time, if you have any good experiences involving pledging that did not involve hazing or know of any good "team building" exercises where people are brought together, please share them. We can only learn from each other. Let ME and MY BROTHERS decide what will and will not work for us. We are NOT trying to steal ideas, but rather create a "sounding board" or "Spring Board" for ideas so we can better develop the pledge process. As I mentioned earlier, with the brothers coming from a culture of hazing...they don't know what else to do...though they do agree they want to do something different.

Feel free to PM me if you do not feel comfortable sharing here. I am not trying to start a war, overstep by bounds or be rude. I honestly came here hoping to learn. Too many times, Greek organizations just turn to themselves for answers...this is an opportunity for true Greek Collaboration to help build a better Greek future for all.

1. Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel if your I/HQ has a program in place?

2. If your chapter of initiation had a non-hazing program that worked, why don't you pull ideas from that program?

[knight_shadow]

Was that a response to my post? If not, please utilize the 'quote' feature.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Was that a response to my post? If not, please utilize the 'quote' feature.

LOL. He was responding to about 3 posts.

It's funny because he wants to be a smartyarty but he's really in no position to do so. He's the one who doesn't know what he's doing and therefore he's the one who is out of his "territory." Afterall, he could just talk to members of his fraternity about this and they'd all be on one accord and in the same "territory."

[djpsk21]

My apologies...I should use the quote function more often than I do...no, that last post was not directed towards you....


I guess it was foolish of me to attempt a Greek life collaboration effort in regards to the new member process. My Nationals has a structure...but local chapters are encouraged to individualize their programs because they understand what works for one may not for another.

The basics are the same across the nation so the same message is provided, however, some chapters do things a little differently than others.

This was merely an effort to learn from others and ask "third parties" rather than to solely rely on learning from "within"

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by djpsk21

My Nationals has a structure...but local chapters are encouraged to individualize their programs because they understand what works for one may not for another.

The basics are the same across the nation so the same message is provided, however, some chapters do things a little differently than others.

You know so much. You should go with what you know.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by djpsk21

My apologies...I should use the quote function more often than I do...no, that last post was not directed towards you....


I guess it was foolish of me to attempt a Greek life collaboration effort in regards to the new member process. My Nationals has a structure...but local chapters are encouraged to individualize their programs because they understand what works for one may not for another.

The basics are the same across the nation so the same message is provided, however, some chapters do things a little differently than others.

This was merely an effort to learn from others and ask "third parties" rather than to solely rely on learning from "within"

And, certainly, what works for one organization may not work for another

Again -- why don't you try to implement the program from your chapter of initiation? Or at least pieces of it?

[djpsk21]

I do hope everyone reading understands though I am in a position to affect change, I do not want to, nor have I intended to force change. This is something I have been entrusted with and in turn, I am looking for a way to create a program that can be agreed upon by the current brotherhood.

EE-BO, thank you for your latest post. It is much appreciated and I will be taking some time over the next few days to sit down with a committee I have recently formed and use what you have provided as a resource.

I hope everyone reading these posts understands that I did not turn solely to this forum looking for answers. The obvious players that should be brought into the conversation (current brothers, alumni, nationals, and other chapters) are all a part of my discussion. I was just trying to think outside the box for other answers or ideas. Thank you to everyone that sent me a PM...they have all been extremely helpful.

To the naysayers, I am sorry that you cannot see this as a positive change not just for this chapter, but for Greek life as a whole. This group is wanting to change their image for the better...again, an effort in which they should truly be commended.

To those that are in support of what this chapter is trying to accomplish and were able to offer valuable insight, thank you very much.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by djpsk21

The obvious players that should be brought into the conversation (current brothers, alumni, nationals, and other chapters) are all a part of my discussion.

If you insist. What better way to show that the discussions with current brothers, alumni, national headquarters, and other chapters have failed/are failing than to come to GC for advice. A wealth of fraternity-based knowledge and experience going down the drain?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by djpsk21

I do hope everyone reading understands though I am in a position to affect change, I do not want to, nor have I intended to force change. This is something I have been entrusted with and in turn, I am looking for a way to create a program that can be agreed upon by the current brotherhood.

EE-BO, thank you for your latest post. It is much appreciated and I will be taking some time over the next few days to sit down with a committee I have recently formed and use what you have provided as a resource.

I hope everyone reading these posts understands that I did not turn solely to this forum looking for answers. The obvious players that should be brought into the conversation (current brothers, alumni, nationals, and other chapters) are all a part of my discussion. I was just trying to think outside the box for other answers or ideas. Thank you to everyone that sent me a PM...they have all been extremely helpful.

To the naysayers, I am sorry that you cannot see this as a positive change not just for this chapter, but for Greek life as a whole. This group is wanting to change their image for the better...again, an effort in which they should truly be commended.

To those that are in support of what this chapter is trying to accomplish and were able to offer valuable insight, thank you very much.

Glad your question was answered. Welcome to the real world of GC.

[knight_shadow]

Is there a reason why you're refusing to answer my question?

[Senusret I]

Dude is sounding real Summer's Eve.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Dude is sounding real Summer's Eve.

It would be really fun if the OP is actually a national or state/local/regional officer for his fraternity and it is his task to think of some new non-hazing membership ideas for the entire fraternity (not just one chapter) to present to the national fraternity's board.

Therefore, he comes to GC for ideas from members of other GLOs because their experiences and ideas could be considered new for his fraternity. Then he would present these ideas as his own brain child. That would be fun.