Is hazing the best way?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

If you have been granted specific powers to force change at a chapter where you are not an initiate- I can only presume you are doing so under express authority granted by your national office, or by alumni of that particular chapter with the blessing of the national office.

He said the chapter gave him the authority.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It wasn't just my chapter. Regularly or semi-regularly visiting other collegiate chapters and keeping in touch with members from other collegiates was considered the norm. I won't assume this is just an NPHC thing until I'm told that it is just an NPHC thing.

It's not just an NPHC thing, though I can easily imagine that it's something that varies from GLO, and maybe even from region to region. I know that even before the days of the internet, we had regular contact with the other chapters in our province, and that has only increased over the years.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

He said the chapter gave him the authority.

This is what I am having a hard time understanding. Granted anything is possible, but I have never heard of a chapter giving over that kind of authority to an active member- much less a transfer student who clearly wants to make a lot of changes.

It is not uncommon for national offices or alumni with the blessings of nationals to temporarily have unusual powers- and it is best achieved by having the chapter vote on it and thus formally accept the need for some change. But an active member in this role would be a new one for me.

If this is the ultimate answer, I am wondering if the chapter- in accordance with their by-laws- have formally given over control, or if the OP has offered his initiative and the actives have more casually- though perhaps sincerely- asked for his help.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

This is what I am having a hard time understanding. Granted anything is possible, but I have never heard of a chapter giving over that kind of authority to an active member- much less a transfer student who clearly wants to make a lot of changes.

I see where you're coming from. My guess (and it is only that) has been that he has transferred in (last year maybe?) and has described to his new chapter brothers what the pledge process was like in his former chapter. Enough people in the chapter feel like, while they don't want to lose the "spirit" of what they've been doing (his word), some changes need to be made. He did say he has a "team of guys on his side," but they want pledges to respect the house like they do, and the only way the know how to do that is by hazing.

So I'm guessing that they have put him in a chapter position (pledge master maybe) where he can design the pledge program, but he knows that it won't fly with the chapter and will fail unless the chapter buys into the hazing alternatives. Hence looking for ideas of what has worked other places. While not a transfer, I worked on a process like that with our chapter fraternity education officer when I was chapter president, way back in the day.

I can imagine a transfer being given a position like that in a smaller chapter. But my guess could, of course, be completely wrong. And if this is something he has been put in place to do by a higher authority than the chapter, your comments are spot on.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

This is what I am having a hard time understanding. Granted anything is possible, but I have never heard of a chapter giving over that kind of authority to an active member- much less a transfer student who clearly wants to make a lot of changes.

It is not uncommon for national offices or alumni with the blessings of nationals to temporarily have unusual powers- and it is best achieved by having the chapter vote on it and thus formally accept the need for some change. But an active member in this role would be a new one for me.

If this is the ultimate answer, I am wondering if the chapter- in accordance with their by-laws- have formally given over control, or if the OP has offered his initiative and the actives have more casually- though perhaps sincerely- asked for his help.

Bingo.

I have never heard of one person having the authority to make sweeping changes. Every post is "I think", "I want", I, I, I.

I am still interested if the OP has a formal position, and how long he's been there.

[djpsk21]

In all honesty, too many people posting are focusing on the minute details instead of answering the overarching question being asked. I don't feel I have to really explain my position because in all honesty, it shouldn't make a difference. I am trying to help my chapter change to become more risk adverse and create a more positive atmosphere....

but, since "my position" and "my authority" seems to be the focus of conversation, here it is:

I am new to this chapter, recent transfer
I never went through hazing so the concept, though I knew it existed, it new to me
After transferring in and talking to the brothers, some of the members realized the
need for change
I was elected, by the chapter, to the role of what some would consider "pledge
master" in hopes that I could help revitalize the progrm
Enough of the chapter wants to see change that they gave me their vote of
confidence
I am seeking help from as many resources as possible because I see an opportunity
here to help this chapter start new traditions.
No, the Nationals has NOT stepped in...this is a chapter initiative (different, right?)
Yes, they have been contacted and advise is being given
Yes, i am on the chat...for the umpteenth time, looking for advice from others.

So, I will ask yet again for advice or examples of how a good "pledge process" or a "new member program" is run. I was hoping this forum could help to generate ideas...not only for my chapter to use but other groups to use as well. What WORKED when you were pledging? What good team building exercises have YOU experienced that were effective...not necessarily with your Greek organization?

I would ask that we stop side tracking ourselves with the unimportant details of who I am, what my position is, the question of my "authority", etc. Rather, let us focus on ideas that can help improve a new member process as this is truly a golden opportunity to fix a broken system.

[AGDee]

While I know that sororities are different in many ways, my personal opinion is that too much time is spent with the pledge classes bonding to each other rather than the group as a whole (pledges and initiated members) bonding together. This leads to (what I see as) a bizarre separation within groups where they identify more with their class than with the chapter as a whole. I think really good team building involves teams that include pledges and members together. Team building exercises that can work: ropes courses, contests, working together on something like a Habitat for Humanity house, a float for Homecoming, intramural sports, an improvement to your house, etc. Something that 1) requires teamwork to complete it, 2) gives each team member a feeling of accomplishment and 3) actually completes something useful or meaningful. Incorporate your fraternity's values into it somehow, make it purposeful. If you really want to focus on the pledges, then include their big brothers too for more of a bonding experience with them as a group.

There are books and books of team building activities that you can do, quick programs and longer ones if you really want to do that kind of thing. The corporate world uses them a lot and it's not bad experience to be familiar with them BUT... most employees roll their eyes and grumble in private groups about them too. We can all do stuff like assemble a puzzle without speaking to each other. Women are more touchy feely and respond nicely to things like "A letter to my sister" where they all write a letter to another member telling them what they appreciate about them. I think that men would respond better to actually performing a task because male friendships, by nature, are more about doing activities together rather than talking. But make them meaningful/purposeful tasks, not just BS stuff that doesn't mean anything.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by djpsk21

In all honesty, too many people posting are focusing on the minute details instead of answering the overarching question being asked. I don't feel I have to really explain my position because in all honesty, it shouldn't make a difference. I am trying to help my chapter change to become more risk adverse and create a more positive atmosphere....

but, since "my position" and "my authority" seems to be the focus of conversation, here it is:

I am new to this chapter, recent transfer
I never went through hazing so the concept, though I knew it existed, it new to me
After transferring in and talking to the brothers, some of the members realized the
need for change
I was elected, by the chapter, to the role of what some would consider "pledge
master" in hopes that I could help revitalize the progrm
Enough of the chapter wants to see change that they gave me their vote of
confidence
I am seeking help from as many resources as possible because I see an opportunity
here to help this chapter start new traditions.
No, the Nationals has NOT stepped in...this is a chapter initiative (different, right?)
Yes, they have been contacted and advise is being given
Yes, i am on the chat...for the umpteenth time, looking for advice from others.

So, I will ask yet again for advice or examples of how a good "pledge process" or a "new member program" is run. I was hoping this forum could help to generate ideas...not only for my chapter to use but other groups to use as well. What WORKED when you were pledging? What good team building exercises have YOU experienced that were effective...not necessarily with your Greek organization?

I would ask that we stop side tracking ourselves with the unimportant details of who I am, what my position is, the question of my "authority", etc. Rather, let us focus on ideas that can help improve a new member process as this is truly a golden opportunity to fix a broken system.

I appreciated hearing the details because it give me some context. Your position DOES matter, because you are coming into a chapter and suggesting big changes to the program. Typically, pledge/new member programs are developed before the new class arrives. I'm sure it's a surprise to many of us that you are suggesting changes mid-semester.

The bottom line is that what works for other fraternities and sororities and even among different chapters of the same organization, might not work for your chapter.

We each have different ideals, chapter history, and ways of doing things. I would gather that no two pledge programs are exactly the same, even in the strictest I/National organization.

This is really something that you need to discuss with members and advisers of YOUR chapter. There really isn't much we, the general population of GC can tell you in terms of what will work for your chapter. Create a committee of older and newer actives. Poll all members on what worked well during their pledge period, and what didn't, and why. You can do it anonymously so that people don't worry about towing a different line.

Only when others can agree on what doesn't work and why, can you all agree on changing things around. It can take several years for sweeping changes, so be patient. Keep everyone in the loop. A fraternity takes more than one man.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by djpsk21

In all honesty, too many people posting are focusing on the minute details instead of answering the overarching question being asked.

So, I will ask yet again for advice or examples of how a good "pledge process" or a "new member program" is run. I was hoping this forum could help to generate ideas...not only for my chapter to use but other groups to use as well.

I would ask that we stop side tracking ourselves with the unimportant details of who I am, what my position is, the question of my "authority", etc. Rather, let us focus on ideas that can help improve a new member process as this is truly a golden opportunity to fix a broken system.

He has the audacity to think he can tell Greekchat what to do, so he probably takes this approach with his NEW chapter (that is not even his chapter of initiation) and will probably fail miserably because of it.

This is HIS chapter of HIS organization and he's inadequate enough to need stranger nonmembers' advice. Yet HE thinks he can direct the conversation. Yeah I think he needs to contact his national headquarters and/or members from other chapters. They are the only ones who should care enough to help his chapter and help his chapter IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE ORGANIZATION'S GUIDELINES.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

He has the audacity to think he can tell Greekchat what to do, so he probably takes this approach with his NEW chapter (that is not even his chapter of initiation) and will probably fail miserably because of it.

This is HIS chapter of HIS organization and he's inadequate enough to need stranger nonmembers' advice. Yet HE thinks he can direct the conversation. Yeah I think he needs to contact his national headquarters and/or members from other chapters. They are the only ones who should care enough to help his chapter and help his chapter IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE ORGANIZATION'S GUIDELINES.

Or he could keep asking here since plenty of people do appear to care enough to help him.

Also, although he objected to the inquiry, he also explained the details that people were asking for. Not outrageous audacity really.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Or he could keep asking here since plenty of people do appear to care enough to help him.

Also, although he objected to the inquiry, he also explained the details that people were asking for.

Did members of his organization not care enough to help him or did he not try?

Yeah...he explained those "unimportant details" that keep "sidetracking" GCers.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Did members of his organization not care enough to help him or did he not try?

Yeah...he explained those "unimportant details" that keep "sidetracking" GCers.

Oh no, I'm so offended. He appears to have exactly the amount of authority he claimed, and nothing more or less.

And I don't really care what he does with his organization, you do however appear to be the only one objecting to his inquiry here.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Oh no, I'm so offended.

Yeah it's horrible that a transfer who was given the "authority" to handle this task is seeking advice on GC.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

you do however appear to be the only one objecting to his inquiry here.

Not really. But, to keep GC fun, threads don't have to go a certain way and GCers don't require a team in order to express an opinion. The best way for OPs not to receive a range of opinions is to not present the issue in the first place.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

And I don't really care what he does with his organization

Some care and others don't. As usual, I'm addressing a topic that has little to do specifically with the OP. We wouldn't have much discussion on GC if everything boiled down to "caring" about the OP himself/herself.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

And I don't really care what he does with his organization, you do however appear to be the only one objecting to his inquiry here.

Seriously? I had to go back and read the thread again. I saw more than one objection disguised as humorous or sarcastic remarks.

What I found disturbing is his disdain for the "unimportant details", which seemed very important to the original question. This thread may have taken a different course and been half as long if those details had been provided earlier (especially the one about his position.)

In any case it seems to me his question has been answered and re-answered. At this point I don't know what he is looking for unless it is for someone to detail their own Intake process. And if someone does that...

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Seriously? I had to go back and read the thread again. I saw more than one objection disguised as humorous or sarcastic remarks.

What I found disturbing is his disdain for the "unimportant details", which seemed very important to the original question. This thread may have taken a different course and been half as long if those details had been provided earlier (especially the one about his position.)

In any case it seems to me his question has been answered and re-answered. At this point I don't know what he is looking for unless it is for someone to detail their own Intake process. And if someone does that...

I agree that his question's been answered, and to be fair I only scrolled down through the posts that appeared under the reply box, so my own laziness I suppose.

I just find it to be overkill.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I agree that his question's been answered, and to be fair I only scrolled down through the posts that appeared under the reply box, so my own laziness I suppose.

I just find it to be overkill.

Interesting.