Is this legal? Deactivated one NPC, now part of a new NPC.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I'd still put my money on an Alumnae Panhellenic checking all transfer students than ANY information such as a SSN any day of the week. Anyone who has sat through a bid matching or a planning session of any sort that involves Advisors or Alumnae Panhellenic ladies know that they are a force to reckon with!

This sounds good to me. Does every school have an Alumnae Panhellenic group?

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

This sounds good to me. Does every school have an Alumnae Panhellenic group?

No, which is why it is a terrible idea. At a school with only one NPC there isn't even a Panhellenic at all.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

No, which is why it is a terrible idea. At a school with only one NPC there isn't even a Panhellenic at all.

Well, on the upside, a school with only one NPC probably doesn't have that many transfer students rush each year, so it would be easier for the group to track the girl's history down.

I was trying to imagine what could work at UGA with 1000-1200 PNMs, and I think each chapter checking the background of each transfer that they actually give a bid to is the only way. As long as you could look into it before initiation, it would work.

I wouldn't want a SSN database; I tend to think that transfers who come from schools with NPC orgs are probably limited enough that each chapter could do the research if the chapter cared enough.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Well, on the upside, a school with only one NPC probably doesn't have that many transfer students rush each year, so it would be easier for the group to track the girl's history down.

I was trying to imagine what could work at UGA with 1000-1200 PNMs, and I think each chapter checking the background of each transfer that they actually give a bid to is the only way. As long as you could look into it before initiation, it would work.

I wouldn't want a SSN database; I tend to think that transfers who come from schools with NPC orgs are probably limited enough that each chapter could do the research if the chapter cared enough.

No, there are a ton of people who transfer from all of the other state schools, many of whom have several NPCs. These girls are from all over the midwest and it would be impossible to track them down. I'd have to call my friends at the University of Wisconsin and get them to go through the Greek stalkerbook and even that isn't going to be 100% correct.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

No, there are a ton of people who transfer from all of the other state schools, many of whom have several NPCs. These girls are from all over the midwest and it would be impossible to track them down. I'd have to call my friends at the University of Wisconsin and get them to go through the Greek stalkerbook and even that isn't going to be 100% correct.

How many do you mean by tons? Are you doing this after they are extended bids or before rush? How big are your new member classes?

Couldn't you call the chapters directly at the campuses where the girls came from? Honestly, how many transfers did you bid last year? How many came from schools with more than five NPC groups?

(Remember no NPCs are at two year schools.)

ETA: I realized this sounded really confrontation with all the questions. I didn't really mean it too. I'm just trying to understand what your actual experience has been. Even in a 50+ girl pledge class at UGA, there aren't probably even five sophomores or above in most groups; a good percentage of the sophomores may have been on the same campus the year before, and of the transfers, some probably came from schools with very few NPC groups. It doesn't seem like it would be hard to track down once you only had to track down the ones who you wanted to join your group, as opposed to screening everyone going through rush.

[kathykd2005]

You can keep a database using other factors aside from Social Security numbers. I wouldn't want to give mine out, either, but being able to search for individuals in a large database may be beneficial in some ways. Not that I think it will ever happen--it most likely won't.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

You can keep a database using other factors aside from Social Security numbers. I wouldn't want to give mine out, either, but being able to search for individuals in a large database may be beneficial in some ways. Not that I think it will ever happen--it most likely won't.

I agree, and the database, if it existed, would be very handy, maybe too handy for marketing and advertising possibilities.

But I think groups could do more to watch our for this even without a database.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

How many do you mean by tons? Are you doing this after they are extended bids or before rush? How big are your new member classes?

Couldn't you call the chapters directly at the campuses where the girls came from? Honestly, how many transfers did you bid last year? How many came from schools with more than five NPC groups?

(Remember no NPCs are at two year schools.)

ETA: I realized this sounded really confrontation with all the questions. I didn't really mean it too. I'm just trying to understand what your actual experience has been. Even in a 50+ girl pledge class at UGA, there aren't probably even five sophomores or above in most groups; a good percentage of the sophomores may have been on the same campus the year before, and of the transfers, some probably came from schools with very few NPC groups. It doesn't seem like it would be hard to track down once you only had to track down the ones who you wanted to join your group, as opposed to screening everyone going through rush.

We haven't had "rush" since the mid-90s. Our NM classes are generally around 10 although up to 40 girls come to our recruitment events. Generally at least 5 transfers come through our recruitment and I think it would be absolutely absurd if I called Kappa at Lawrence or Phi Mu at LaCrosse and said "Hi, so and so is rushing my sorority, did she join your chapter?" I wouldn't give anybody who called our house and asked that the time of day. The girls in my chapter do not have the time to call every sorority at the other school the girl came from on top of classes and recruitment nor the time to email a list of those girls to the alumnae who are at least 60 miles away and busy with work or grad school. It's seriously absurd for you to think that this would work. This isn't like UGA or Bama where many alumnae are not working and have more free time for volunteering and alumnae panhellenic. This is essentially a tech school.

And yes, I do know that community colleges don't have NPCs. I also know that grass is green, the sky is blue, and I am sick of ladies who lunch assuming that every chapter is exactly like theirs.

[AChiOhSnap]

Question...

Why wouldn't a database that simply had full names, birthdates, and affiliations not work? Even if a woman has a relatively common name, here's how it would work.

Jessica Marie Smith was a member of ABC at East Coast University. She transfers to West Coast University, goes through recruitment, and receives a bid to XYZ.

Especially since she's a transfer, someone from XYZ would check the national NPC database. Forty hits for Jessica Marie Smith come up, but only two initiated at ECU. One Jessica was born 7/8/1971 -- so it's obviously not her -- and another Jessica was born 2/27/1988. Voila, a name and birthday match. A quick phone call to the chapter at ECU or ABC headquarters confirms this girl's identity.

I don't know about everyone else, but I had to verify my identity (via driver's license or school ID which had my legal name and birthday on it) before I could sign up for recruitment because of age restrictions.

I really think this would work, and it would be as simple as a sorority updating their own member databases. It seems relatively easy enough. I'm sure mistakes would be made and if a girl changed her legal name from the time she was in one GLO before she rushed another it might make things sticky, but that seems unlikely. If a PNM is so psycho that she'd take great measures to hide her legal identity in order to cheat the system, my guess is she wouldn't last very long in a sorority anyway.

[Buttonz]

Originally Posted by AChiOhSnap

Question...
I don't know about everyone else, but I had to verify my identity (via driver's license or school ID which had my legal name and birthday on it) before I could sign up for recruitment because of age restrictions.

Off topic....but what time of age restrictions did you school have with recruitment?

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by AChiOhSnap

Question...

Why wouldn't a database that simply had full names, birthdates, and affiliations not work? Even if a woman has a relatively common name, here's how it would work.

Jessica Marie Smith was a member of ABC at East Coast University. She transfers to West Coast University, goes through recruitment, and receives a bid to XYZ.

Especially since she's a transfer, someone from XYZ would check the national NPC database. Forty hits for Jessica Marie Smith come up, but only two initiated at ECU. One Jessica was born 7/8/1971 -- so it's obviously not her -- and another Jessica was born 2/27/1988. Voila, a name and birthday match. A quick phone call to the chapter at ECU or ABC headquarters confirms this girl's identity.

I don't know about everyone else, but I had to verify my identity (via driver's license or school ID which had my legal name and birthday on it) before I could sign up for recruitment because of age restrictions.

I really think this would work, and it would be as simple as a sorority updating their own member databases. It seems relatively easy enough. I'm sure mistakes would be made and if a girl changed her legal name from the time she was in one GLO before she rushed another it might make things sticky, but that seems unlikely. If a PNM is so psycho that she'd take great measures to hide her legal identity in order to cheat the system, my guess is she wouldn't last very long in a sorority anyway.

I think this would be a lot more efficient to search and not run the risks of giving out an SSN.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

We haven't had "rush" since the mid-90s. Our NM classes are generally around 10 although up to 40 girls come to our recruitment events. Generally at least 5 transfers come through our recruitment and I think it would be absolutely absurd if I called Kappa at Lawrence or Phi Mu at LaCrosse and said "Hi, so and so is rushing my sorority, did she join your chapter?" I wouldn't give anybody who called our house and asked that the time of day. The girls in my chapter do not have the time to call every sorority at the other school the girl came from on top of classes and recruitment nor the time to email a list of those girls to the alumnae who are at least 60 miles away and busy with work or grad school. It's seriously absurd for you to think that this would work. This isn't like UGA or Bama where many alumnae are not working and have more free time for volunteering and alumnae panhellenic. This is essentially a tech school.

And yes, I do know that community colleges don't have NPCs. I also know that grass is green, the sky is blue, and I am sick of ladies who lunch assuming that every chapter is exactly like theirs.

Nobody has had "rush" since the mid 90s, and I apologize for saying rush rather than recruitment. If you don't care enough to find out if people you initiate were members of a NPC group at their previous campuses, it hardly reflect poorly on people and groups who would make it a priority. If you are too busy to follow up on the few girls who you want to initiate who are transfers (which sounds like it would be far fewer than ten a year), and you wouldn’t help another chapter with similar information, then you get what you deserve.

You’re basically saying you don’t care about the pasts of the girls you are going to make sisters. You’re not in my group, so if you’re cool with that, it’s none of my business.

I will note that many of your observations about Greek life in the south are wildly inaccurate, but if you’d assume all that, you’re not worth the time to correct it.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Nobody has had "rush" since the mid 90s, and I apologize for saying rush rather than recruitment. If you don't care enough to find out if people you initiate were members of a NPC group at their previous campuses, it hardly reflect poorly on people and groups who would make it a priority. If you are too busy to follow up on the few girls who you want to initiate who are transfers (which sounds like it would be far fewer than ten a year), and you wouldn’t help another chapter with similar information, then you get what you deserve.

You’re basically saying you don’t care about the pasts of the girls you are going to make sisters. You’re not in my group, so if you’re cool with that, it’s none of my business.

I will note that many of your observations about Greek life in the south are wildly inaccurate, but if you’d assume all that, you’re not worth the time to correct it.

I think you'd be surprised at just how much I know about rush in the south.

I would never give some random KD or Pi Phi information about my sister. How do I know they are who they say they are? I wouldn't want my sisters to tell you anything about me without my consent.

Sure, it could only be five girls a semester. But that's 5 girls x 5 NPCs at their previous campus...25 phone calls that may or may not even give me actual information...and keep in mind I would have to drive SEVEN HOURS to my chapter to find out who these girls are. You seem to think I have that free time, or that the girls in my chapter have the time to compile dossiers on new members. We don't. We don't put girls on kitchen duty. We are a small chapter.

The Excel spreadsheet I can get behind. That takes 5 minutes.

[AChiOhSnap]

Originally Posted by Buttonz

Off topic....but what time of age restrictions did you school have with recruitment?

I believe you had to be over 17 either due to local panhel rules or because there was a chapter (Chi O maybe?) in which you had to be 17+ to join.

Maybe it was over 18 for liability reasons? I don't remember, I was almost 19 so it was a moot point for me either way.

[PsychTau2]

Ya'll haven't even mentioned calling the Greek Advisor at the other campus.

Example: Jessica Marie Smith fills out a recruitment application and notes that she is a transfer student (because we have to check GPAs) from East Coast University. I shoot an email over to ECU's Greek Advisor and ask them to check their roster database for her name. If a Jessica Marie Smith shows up, we do some more investigative work.

Of course, this is assuming that Greek Advisors keep their roster information in easily searchable databases, which I think most do now in order to run GPA reports easier. Instead of calling 10 NPC chapters at ECU, I call (or email) one person.

Sure, bigger universities might see this as too time consuming, but it's up to each campus Panhellenic to decide how concerned they want to become with this issue. If a chapter member is suspicious about someone, they can bring it up with the Greek advisor.

PsychTau