Dating and finances

[Little32]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

But then again, I also don't need fine dining. I'd just as gladly split a salad and and ice cream at Chick-Fil-A or something.

I guess several other folks have made this point too. You don't always have to do something extravagant on a date. There are plenty of fun things to do while dating that won't break (or even tap) the bank.

I agree with Pretty Boy too. I think that folks will find a way to do what they prefer when it comes to dating regardless of the economic situation. If a man prefers to always pay and he is dating a woman that wants to let him, then he will probably continue to pay even if it means going to Ruth Chris's twice a month instead of once a week (and I am certain that there will always men like this who will always be able to find women who love that). As long as it continues to work for them, they will make it work.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This isn't about etiquette and manners. This is about perpetuating gendered social norms.

If the topic was about people negotiating etiquette and manners based on personality type and choice, rather than gendered obligation, this wouldn't be an issue or even a topic of discussion. Instead the topic is "should men pay (open doors, etc.)."

Ever wonder what happens when women defy gender norms and want to pay for the first few dates, open doors for men (not just to reciprocate), etc? It often confuses things, often angers most men (you'll be surprised what men conclude about the women), and challenges traditional notions of masculinity and femininity. We don't have to think about this stuff and challenge this stuff all the time, but there's nothing wrong with using your brain instead of constantly relying on "how things have always been."

it's supposed to challenge tradition notions because it goes against traditional etiquette and manners. etiquette and manners are learned. who do they learn it from? society. is it wrong for society to teach etiquette and manners?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by starang21

it's supposed to challenge tradition notions because it goes against traditional etiquette and manners. etiquette and manners are learned. who do they learn it from? society. is it wrong for society to teach etiquette and manners?

What DrPhil is trying to say is the same things should apply for everyone. I'm sure there are still women out there who will literally stand next to a car and wait for the guy to open the door, even if he's carrying a small child, a case of beer and his golf clubs. That's dumb. Her point (well, part of it) is that there are people out there who substitute etiquette and "manners" for common sense.

[AGDee]

Or if there were two sets of doors and he was holding the first one open for you. To stand there, make him move around you so that he can hold the door for you again is silly. He opened and held the first one, you can open and hold the second one. Courtesy, thoughtfulness.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by 33girl

What DrPhil is trying to say is the same things should apply for everyone. I'm sure there are still women out there who will literally stand next to a car and wait for the guy to open the door, even if he's carrying a small child, a case of beer and his golf clubs. That's dumb. Her point (well, part of it) is that there are people out there who substitute etiquette and "manners" for common sense.

a woman shouldn't be opening doors for a man, nor should a woman be carrying the majority of the bags. of course there should be common sense and moderation, but to say that everything a man is supposed to do, a woman is as well is silly. gender roles or duties exist. it's life.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by starang21

a woman shouldn't be opening doors for a man, nor should a woman be carrying the majority of the bags. of course there should be common sense and moderation, but to say that everything a man is supposed to do, a woman is as well is silly. gender roles or duties exist. it's life.

Your post doesn't make sense. I said if a man is carrying tons of bags (because he's probably stronger than the woman, which is a biological thing), it's asinine for the woman to stand there like a lump and wait for him to open the door FOR HER. Unless it's a 250 pound door.

Dee - one of the things that used to drive me crackers was in the elevator, how men would stand to the side to let women out. Problem was, sometimes they ended up squishing you into the side and/or making you walk awkwardly around them. Seriously dumbass, just GET OUT OF THE FREAKING VATOR.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Your post doesn't make sense. I said if a man is carrying tons of bags (because he's probably stronger than the woman, which is a biological thing), it's asinine for the woman to stand there like a lump and wait for him to open the door FOR HER. Unless it's a 250 pound door.

Dee - one of the things that used to drive me crackers was in the elevator, how men would stand to the side to let women out. Problem was, sometimes they ended up squishing you into the side and/or making you walk awkwardly around them. Seriously dumbass, just GET OUT OF THE FREAKING VATOR.

Our elevators at work close REALLY fast so when people do that kind of stuff, the doors will close and nobody got to get out. It's so silly. I think men do it to make us brush up against them, honestly!

[starang21]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Your post doesn't make sense. I said if a man is carrying tons of bags (because he's probably stronger than the woman, which is a biological thing), it's asinine for the woman to stand there like a lump and wait for him to open the door FOR HER. Unless it's a 250 pound door.

how does it not make sense? i said

a woman shouldn't be opening doors for a man, nor should a woman be carrying the majority of the bags. of course there should be common sense and moderation

your statement falls under "common sense and moderation." what is hard to understand about that?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by starang21

how does it not make sense? i said



your statement falls under "common sense and moderation." what is hard to understand about that?

Because I said nothing about a woman carrying the majority of the bags.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Because I said nothing about a woman carrying the majority of the bags.

and? i did. your statement didn't apply to my statement. do you disagree with my statement?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by starang21

and? i did. your statement didn't apply to my statement. do you disagree with my statement?

It's not a matter of disagreeing, it's a matter of it not relating to the example or argument I offered. It's like I said "black or white?" and you said "hippo."

This is by far the dumbest fight I have ever had on Greek Chat.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by 33girl

It's not a matter of disagreeing, it's a matter of it not relating to the example or argument I offered. It's like I said "black or white?" and you said "hippo."

This is by far the dumbest fight I have ever had on Greek Chat.

my statement was in response to

What DrPhil is trying to say is the same things should apply for everyone.

i said that carrying the majority of the bags should be done by the man and thus should not apply to the woman.

if this is a fight by your definition, then you need to get out more.

[BrandNewAdvisor]

From the Emily Post Institute: The Finer Points of Dating Courtesy—Gender Neutral

"Holding the door: Whoever gets to the door first holds it for others. Getting off an elevator: The person closest to the door exits first.
Helping to put on a coat: Anyone having trouble putting on a coat or sweater should receive some help, regardless of gender.
Paying for a meal: Whoever does the inviting does the paying...
Helping to carry something: A neighbor or coworker—anyone—who is overloaded with books or packages will appreciate an offer of help from whoever is nearby."


There are etiquette rules that don't make presumptions about gender roles. I do agree with them, gender equality means equality in all areas not just when it's advantageous. There's nothing wrong with low key dates, especially the first few, there's way less pressure that way and it doesn't come off as trying to show off. I don't think I've ever paid for a first date, but I've also never asked anyone out on the first date and I always offered to chip in.


How does it work for same-sex couples or any of the alternate non traditional gender identifying couples, do polygamous couples all just split it? I can imagine that would get complicated...

[christiangirl]

I've actually read (don't remember where...maybe one of the Mars and Venus books) that men and women differ when it comes to receiving help carrying things. If a woman is struggling to carry something (e.g., multiple bags), another woman sees that as a sign they need help and will probably offer. However, if a man is struggling with multiple bags and a woman offers to help, there's a good chance he'll be offended--he'll see her offering to help as an insinuation that he's not strong enough to handle it. I'm not a guy so I don't know how much truth there is in that.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

What DrPhil is trying to say is the same things should apply for everyone. I'm sure there are still women out there who will literally stand next to a car and wait for the guy to open the door, even if he's carrying a small child, a case of beer and his golf clubs. That's dumb. Her point (well, part of it) is that there are people out there who substitute etiquette and "manners" for common sense.

Exactly. And they see it as blasphemy to do anything that isn't "traditional," even if there are more logical alternatives.

I don't know what the hell starang21 is talking about. LOL. He made my head hurt.