Dating and finances - Page 3

starang21 · #1 03-07-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This isn't about etiquette and manners. This is about perpetuating gendered social norms.

If the topic was about people negotiating etiquette and manners based on personality type and choice, rather than gendered obligation, this wouldn't be an issue or even a topic of discussion. Instead the topic is "should men pay (open doors, etc.)."

Ever wonder what happens when women defy gender norms and want to pay for the first few dates, open doors for men (not just to reciprocate), etc?

It often confuses things, often angers most men (you'll be surprised what men conclude about the women), and challenges traditional notions of masculinity and femininity. We don't have to think about this stuff and challenge this stuff all the time, but there's nothing wrong with using your brain instead of constantly relying on "how things have always been."

it's supposed to challenge tradition notions because it goes against traditional etiquette and manners. etiquette and manners are learned. who do they learn it from? society. is it wrong for society to teach etiquette and manners?

33girl · #2 03-07-2010, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starang21

it's supposed to challenge tradition notions because it goes against traditional etiquette and manners. etiquette and manners are learned. who do they learn it from? society. is it wrong for society to teach etiquette and manners?

What DrPhil is trying to say is the same things should apply for everyone. I'm sure there are still women out there who will literally stand next to a car and wait for the guy to open the door, even if he's carrying a small child, a case of beer and his golf clubs. That's dumb. Her point (well, part of it) is that there are people out there who substitute etiquette and "manners" for common sense.

starang21 · #3 03-07-2010, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

What DrPhil is trying to say is the same things should apply for everyone. I'm sure there are still women out there who will literally stand next to a car and wait for the guy to open the door, even if he's carrying a small child, a case of beer and his golf clubs. That's dumb. Her point (well, part of it) is that there are people out there who substitute etiquette and "manners" for common sense.

a woman shouldn't be opening doors for a man, nor should a woman be carrying the majority of the bags. of course there should be common sense and moderation, but to say that everything a man is supposed to do, a woman is as well is silly. gender roles or duties exist. it's life.

DrPhil · #4 03-09-2010, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl

What DrPhil is trying to say is the same things should apply for everyone. I'm sure there are still women out there who will literally stand next to a car and wait for the guy to open the door, even if he's carrying a small child, a case of beer and his golf clubs. That's dumb. Her point (well, part of it) is that there are people out there who substitute etiquette and "manners" for common sense.

Exactly. And they see it as blasphemy to do anything that isn't "traditional," even if there are more logical alternatives.

I don't know what the hell starang21 is talking about. LOL. He made my head hurt.

Xan is the Man · #5 03-07-2010, 05:34 AM

I don't think it matters who pays. You work that out before you go out on the date.

AGDee · #6 03-07-2010, 05:52 PM

Or if there were two sets of doors and he was holding the first one open for you. To stand there, make him move around you so that he can hold the door for you again is silly. He opened and held the first one, you can open and hold the second one. Courtesy, thoughtfulness.

christiangirl · #7 03-08-2010, 04:56 AM

I've actually read (don't remember where...maybe one of the Mars and Venus books) that men and women differ when it comes to receiving help carrying things. If a woman is struggling to carry something (e.g., multiple bags), another woman sees that as a sign they need help and will probably offer. However, if a man is struggling with multiple bags and a woman offers to help, there's a good chance he'll be offended--he'll see her offering to help as an insinuation that he's not strong enough to handle it. I'm not a guy so I don't know how much truth there is in that.

DrPhil · #8 03-09-2010, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christiangirl

I've actually read (don't remember where...maybe one of the Mars and Venus books) that men and women differ when it comes to receiving help carrying things. If a woman is struggling to carry something (e.g., multiple bags), another woman sees that as a sign they need help and will probably offer. However, if a man is struggling with multiple bags and a woman offers to help, there's a good chance he'll be offended--he'll see her offering to help as an insinuation that he's not strong enough to handle it. I'm not a guy so I don't know how much truth there is in that.

There is truth to that both consciously and subconsciously. We don't need individual men to vouch for something to know what has been found to be the case in research, etc.

Your post speaks to my point. Thanks, christiangirl.

agzg · #9 03-09-2010, 11:29 AM

I do wash the clothes in my house but that's mostly because I like it, and although live-in does it just fine and also doesn't mind doing it, I have a tendency to freak out because I don't like other people doing my laundry. Laundry was my chore while growing up in my house, dishes were my brother's.

AGDee · #10 03-09-2010, 11:52 AM

If he can't kill a spider or scrape a frozen dead duck off the deck, then he's useless to me. Other than that, i can do it myself, thanks. (but love assistance and accepts it when offered.. if he's going to do the job RIGHT, which is usually an issue).

honeychile · #11 03-09-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee

If he can't kill a spider or scrape a frozen dead duck off the deck, then he's useless to me.

I have asked guys about what they can and can't do, but I have never, ever asked if they can scrape a dead duck off the deck!

I completely agree that both men and women should know basic life skills (cooking, cleaning, laundry, fixing, killing critters, etc). I'm a mean cook, enjoy doing the laundry, but I also have my own power tools. If you give me a long enough fly swatter, I can kill a spider but hate it. But my mother-out-law made such an idol out of cleaning that she grossed me out. That poor woman had no life that didn't include a dust rag or detergent. I believe in tidy, I believe in clean, but an antiseptic house is a sign of illness!

I think that every couple needs to sit down and figure who will do what and how often. And if neither can do something or the other, then how to get it done should be figured out, too.

nikki1920 · #12 03-09-2010, 05:22 PM

Is that my 2nd favorite Iota?? *faints*

I say do what works for you first, then what works for you as a couple. Compromise is a wonderful thing.

christiangirl · #13 03-09-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Things like:

Washing clothes
Household repairs and plumbing
Holding doors open
Cooking (my pet peeve...LOL)
Paying bills and finances

I did all of this in my own apartment (HATED the bolded, can't do it worth a darn but I'll try if I'm desperate). I can change the tires and oil on my car, too. I'd have no problem doing that in a shared household. If he can cook and clean and I could do all the rest, fine by me. I prefer mowing the lawn and taking out the trash over washing dishes any day of the week. If he was okay with that, I'd be in heaven (though chances are I'll find a man who was brought up to believe those are "my" jobs).

Quote:

Originally Posted by starang21

i saw a dude who had a murse on. AND skinny jeans.

I met a man wearing a Coach purse, matching hat, and acrylic nails (which were yellowed from improper maintenance). I took pictures when his back was turned.

AGDee · #14 03-09-2010, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honeychile

I have asked guys about what they can and can't do, but I have never, ever asked if they can scrape a dead duck off the deck!

I completely agree that both men and women should know basic life skills (cooking, cleaning, laundry, fixing, killing critters, etc). I'm a mean cook, enjoy doing the laundry, but I also have my own power tools. If you give me a long enough fly swatter, I can kill a spider but hate it. But my mother-out-law made such an idol out of cleaning that she grossed me out. That poor woman had no life that didn't include a dust rag or detergent. I believe in tidy, I believe in clean, but an antiseptic house is a sign of illness!

I think that every couple needs to sit down and figure who will do what and how often. And if neither can do something or the other, then how to get it done should be figured out, too.

The dead duck story is in the TMI thread in ChitChat

It only came to be an issue in very recent times! I ended up paying my 13 year old son to do it and even then, had to convince him "Man up! You're almost 14, you can do this! I'll pay you!"

I agree on your other points completely. I also have power tools and can mitre a corner on molding like nobody's business. I hate clutter and clean regularly, but it's a lived in house nonetheless. I just want things to be where they are supposed to be. I hate having to look for stuff when it should be "in it's place". I had to learn to kill spiders when my kids were little and I became single. I have to protect the children from those evil things, but I hate it. They no longer paralyze me though. Killing them is a necessity because the alternative (letting them wander around the house) is NOT an option!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

So, you believe gender equality. Good.

The man who got me partially brought me in because of two things: a clean home and good cooking.

I REFUSED to bring something to the table (literally and figuratively) that he couldn't. My household is relatively gender neutral so outside of the biological differences, he and I do the same or similar things.

QFT! Although, I can accept that different people are skilled at different things. It shouldn't be based on gender, but on individual strengths. If a man can't cook, I could live with that, as long as he can wash dishes or do something else that I hate/can't do. And, I cannot tolerate clutter so he had better be able to get clothes into the hamper and clean his frickin whiskers out of the sink. And if he leaves all the cupboard/dresser doors and drawers open, it's a deal breaker!

honeychile · #15 03-09-2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee

The dead duck story is in the TMI thread in ChitChat

It only came to be an issue in very recent times! I ended up paying my 13 year old son to do it and even then, had to convince him "Man up! You're almost 14, you can do this! I'll pay you!"

LOL - I'll have to read about that! There's a feral cat colony near my house (and yes, I'm guilty of feeding three of them), so I doubt that a dead duck would have the time to freeze to anything before it became dinner.