Dating and finances

[starang21]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This isn't about etiquette and manners. This is about perpetuating gendered social norms.

If the topic was about people negotiating etiquette and manners based on personality type and choice, rather than gendered obligation, this wouldn't be an issue or even a topic of discussion. Instead the topic is "should men pay (open doors, etc.)."

Ever wonder what happens when women defy gender norms and want to pay for the first few dates, open doors for men (not just to reciprocate), etc? It often confuses things, often angers most men (you'll be surprised what men conclude about the women), and challenges traditional notions of masculinity and femininity. We don't have to think about this stuff and challenge this stuff all the time, but there's nothing wrong with using your brain instead of constantly relying on "how things have always been."

it's supposed to challenge tradition notions because it goes against traditional etiquette and manners. etiquette and manners are learned. who do they learn it from? society. is it wrong for society to teach etiquette and manners?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by starang21

it's supposed to challenge tradition notions because it goes against traditional etiquette and manners. etiquette and manners are learned. who do they learn it from? society. is it wrong for society to teach etiquette and manners?

What DrPhil is trying to say is the same things should apply for everyone. I'm sure there are still women out there who will literally stand next to a car and wait for the guy to open the door, even if he's carrying a small child, a case of beer and his golf clubs. That's dumb. Her point (well, part of it) is that there are people out there who substitute etiquette and "manners" for common sense.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by 33girl

What DrPhil is trying to say is the same things should apply for everyone. I'm sure there are still women out there who will literally stand next to a car and wait for the guy to open the door, even if he's carrying a small child, a case of beer and his golf clubs. That's dumb. Her point (well, part of it) is that there are people out there who substitute etiquette and "manners" for common sense.

a woman shouldn't be opening doors for a man, nor should a woman be carrying the majority of the bags. of course there should be common sense and moderation, but to say that everything a man is supposed to do, a woman is as well is silly. gender roles or duties exist. it's life.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by starang21

a woman shouldn't be opening doors for a man, nor should a woman be carrying the majority of the bags. of course there should be common sense and moderation, but to say that everything a man is supposed to do, a woman is as well is silly. gender roles or duties exist. it's life.

Your post doesn't make sense. I said if a man is carrying tons of bags (because he's probably stronger than the woman, which is a biological thing), it's asinine for the woman to stand there like a lump and wait for him to open the door FOR HER. Unless it's a 250 pound door.

Dee - one of the things that used to drive me crackers was in the elevator, how men would stand to the side to let women out. Problem was, sometimes they ended up squishing you into the side and/or making you walk awkwardly around them. Seriously dumbass, just GET OUT OF THE FREAKING VATOR.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Your post doesn't make sense. I said if a man is carrying tons of bags (because he's probably stronger than the woman, which is a biological thing), it's asinine for the woman to stand there like a lump and wait for him to open the door FOR HER. Unless it's a 250 pound door.

Dee - one of the things that used to drive me crackers was in the elevator, how men would stand to the side to let women out. Problem was, sometimes they ended up squishing you into the side and/or making you walk awkwardly around them. Seriously dumbass, just GET OUT OF THE FREAKING VATOR.

Our elevators at work close REALLY fast so when people do that kind of stuff, the doors will close and nobody got to get out. It's so silly. I think men do it to make us brush up against them, honestly!

[starang21]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Your post doesn't make sense. I said if a man is carrying tons of bags (because he's probably stronger than the woman, which is a biological thing), it's asinine for the woman to stand there like a lump and wait for him to open the door FOR HER. Unless it's a 250 pound door.

how does it not make sense? i said

a woman shouldn't be opening doors for a man, nor should a woman be carrying the majority of the bags. of course there should be common sense and moderation

your statement falls under "common sense and moderation." what is hard to understand about that?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by starang21

how does it not make sense? i said



your statement falls under "common sense and moderation." what is hard to understand about that?

Because I said nothing about a woman carrying the majority of the bags.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Because I said nothing about a woman carrying the majority of the bags.

and? i did. your statement didn't apply to my statement. do you disagree with my statement?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Because I said nothing about a woman carrying the majority of the bags.

Are they shopping bags?

With shoes?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by starang21

gender roles or duties exist. it's life.

Bullshit.

As your friend, I am not shocked that you feel this way and this is why you and I discuss race but rarely discuss gender.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Bullshit.

As your friend, I am not shocked that you feel this way and this is why you and I discuss race but rarely discuss gender.

you never bring it up.

and gender roles do exist. whether or not you believe in them, enough people do to make it reality.

trying to challenge gender roles is all fine and well, but don't get mad when you're stuck with all the bags and your man is carrying a purse.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by starang21

you never bring it up.

and gender roles do exist. whether or not you believe in them, enough people do to make it reality.

trying to challenge gender roles is all fine and well, but don't get mad when you're stuck with all the bags and your man is carrying a purse.

Especially if it's HIS purse.

at which point some intervention may be needed.

So...now that we are at this point of conversation, are there things that men and women are supposed to do because of their gender?

(Sidebar: When out and about, I walk with my s/o I walk closest to the street side...like my body can withstand the impact of a 2 ton car traveling upwards of 25 mph.)

Things like:

Washing clothes
Household repairs and plumbing
Holding doors open
Cooking (my pet peeve...LOL)
Paying bills and finances

[starang21]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Especially if it's HIS purse.

at which point some intervention may be needed.

So...now that we are at this point of conversation, are there things that men and women are supposed to do because of their gender?

(Sidebar: When out and about, I walk with my s/o I walk closest to the street side...like my body can withstand the impact of a 2 ton car traveling upwards of 25 mph.)

Things like:

Washing clothes
Household repairs and plumbing
Holding doors open
Cooking (my pet peeve...LOL)
Paying bills and finances

i saw a dude who had a murse on. AND skinny jeans.

i walk to the side closest to the street. i can't stop a car, but i can push her out of the way.

all of those things you listed, either person can do. particularly if they have th know-how. but there are still things that a man should do. like open the door and carry most of the bags. or walk on the street side of the sidewalk.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by starang21

you never bring it up.

I always knew why. Now you do, too.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I always knew why. Now you do, too.

because we disagree? because it isnt due to either one of us having the "right" answer. theres no such thing.