Rushing rules reg. females

[Elephant Walk]

Our formal rush, that is the actual parties, are lady-free. However, the rush parties and so forth are packed full of the creatures.

[TechTransfer]

We can have no more than ten women at any time at a rush event. Also, we're not allowed to have members of only one particular sorority at an event- if nine of the women are KD's, the tenth can't be. That's actually an improvement- in past years it was no more than five.

[FSUfiji]

at fsu it is encouraged by panhellenic sororities to go out and support IFC rush. Every semester we have rush we have girls from various sororities there to not only look good but to give their opinion to the rushees that come around. Its never a bad thing when the two councils support each other.

[jonnydrillbit]

Originally Posted by FSUfiji

at fsu it is encouraged by panhellenic sororities to go out and support IFC rush. Every semester we have rush we have girls from various sororities there to not only look good but to give their opinion to the rushees that come around. Its never a bad thing when the two councils support each other.

I disagree. Rush is about guys. Its about talking to guys and meeting guys. Meeting girls is great and that comes later, but this is a time for the guys to meet the guys. Guys dont go to sorority recruitment, girls dont belong at fraternity recruitment.

[gtdxeric]

Originally Posted by jonnydrillbit

I disagree. Rush is about guys. Its about talking to guys and meeting guys. Meeting girls is great and that comes later, but this is a time for the guys to meet the guys. Guys dont go to sorority recruitment, girls dont belong at fraternity recruitment.

Girls can be useful during fraternity recruitment. For the brothers, seeing how a rushee treats a female can be... informative. Also, having ladies present can takes away some from the "interview" feel of rush, making rushees more comfortable.

However, as I think i've said before, females at rush and rush-related events are most helpful when they're actually familar with the fraternity and/or the rushees, not a random sorority.

[jonnydrillbit]

Originally Posted by gtdxeric

Girls can be useful during fraternity recruitment. For the brothers, seeing how a rushee treats a female can be... informative. Also, having ladies present can takes away some from the "interview" feel of rush, making rushees more comfortable.

However, as I think i've said before, females at rush and rush-related events are most helpful when they're actually familar with the fraternity and/or the rushees, not a random sorority.

Yeah thats fine, maybe 2 or 3 sweethearts passing out snacks and meeting the rushees. Some people are telling other people to bring girls with them when they rush, bring lots of girls. Well theres no way that would even be allowed at my school because of the rules, but if theres 2 girls to every 1 guy at a rush event, hell that makes a great party, but a terrible mockery of a rush event.

[EE-BO]

"2 or 3 sweethearts passing out snacks"- nice! Good luck getting respectable and achievement-minded women to respect that viewpoint.

Rush is about a group of men showing potential members that their GLO is a place that winners want to be.

Intelligent, socially adept quality women being present at such events is the ultimate indication that a fraternity's membership are winners who are destined to do well in life- and that is what brings in top rushees. The women who attend fraternity rush events say more about the men of that fraternity than anything else.

And women like that are not going to whore themselves out to rushees or do the other kinds of things that you and- apparently some universities- assume is what happens when women attend rush events. A chapter that brings whores to parties is a bottom tier chapter of people who lack the social manners and skills to be winners- plain and simple. No university rule or feel-good rule about "rush is all about the guys" will ever change that doom.

Well bred and well raised men and women interact at social functions from their earliest days- starting with birthday parties, then etiquette or social training in school or through the local Junior League (at my school we all took ballroom training in 6th grade), then on to high school formals and proms- and then to college.

It makes no sense to suddenly break that up during fraternity rush.

Give me a good reason why there should not be ladies at rush parties- a GOOD reason.

If your reason is a fear of rape, promiscuity etc.- then save it. That just means you have the wrong guys and/or the wrong women in attendance.

Explain to me why quality women are a negative influence in fraternity rush.

[EE-BO]

PS- Please forgive my combative attitude on this. I have never heard of such a thing, though clearly from the posts it is policy at several schools. That may color my reading of the tone of your posts.

The presence of quality women is critical to us in rush for two reasons,

1. It is a chance to see how rushees behave around and treat women. This is one of the two big "tests".

2. Women who attend the parties give valuable feedback to the actives on who should or should not be pledged. It goes hand in hand with #1.

How a potential rushee treats women in a social setting is huge down here in the south. So the idea of restricting their presence is hard to understand outside of any formal rush rounds that are done at some schools.

[jonnydrillbit]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Give me a good reason why there should not be ladies at rush parties- a GOOD reason.

Here are some of the many reasons why schools have chosen to adopt this policy.

1) Men arent allowed at sorority rush, why is it important to see how the men treat women, but now how women treat men?

2) Some people arent joining a fraternity to meet women. it's just not important to them. some people arent even attracted to women. This needs to be understood and respected.

3) Rush events shouldnt be parties. They shouldnt have alcohol (most schools have dry rush now anyway) and they shouldnt have women or dancing. Rush events should be things like batting cages, poker nights, or nfl screenings. Women are not necessary at these events.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by jonnydrillbit

Rush events should be things like batting cages, poker nights, or nfl screenings. Women are not necessary at these events.

Rush shouldn't be any of those things and I hope there aren't schools promoting that it should be. Rush should be guys having conversations with rushees and maybe a speaker. If some girls want to come hang out and wait for the party after official rush ends that's fine, but they don't have to be there for rush (and like the gimmicky parties, they may actually distract from the purpose of rush and make it difficult to have good conversations with rushees).

I guess the way I look at it, rushees already know that fraternities hang out with girls. In the cases of the better houses, they probably even know what groups of girls it is you hang out with. I don't see a real benefit to girls being at rush other than a house kind of making the statement "look, we hang out with great girls". And I think that should kind of already be a given, and at worst when a rushee asks about the houses social calendar, it isn't too hard to mention what houses you do a lot of stuff with and accomplish the same thing.

[gphiangel624]

Originally Posted by TSteven

I just want to point out that just because *your* campus IFC (the general your/you) may not allow women at rush events, doesn't mean that on other campuses, women can not attend. Each campus is different and there are no NIC rules that govern women at IFC rush events.

NIC doesn't have any rules for governing the presence of women at IFC chapter rush/recruitment events, but their "Basic 5" manual for IFC recruitment officers states that there should not be women at events as one of the extra guidelines for the Basic 5. So while they don't prohibit it, they ask chapters to consider why women at men's events are necessary.

I've always asked what the role of the women at the event is - if they are doing something that the men should be doing (i.e. serving snacks/drinks, talking to potential members, providing entertainment, selecting and/or voting on potential members), why aren't the male members of the organization doing it? I can understand having women present as "social icebreakers" but even that can be a questionable role.

And, let's face it, having women present can and probably will add to the liability for the fraternity. An example that potential male members may also do, but women add another risk of bringing alcohol into what should be dry recruitment.

[TSteven]

I have never heard of any woman selecting or voting on any potential fraternity member - ever! Input, sure. But never the selection.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Gamma Phi Beta's rules (in accordance with NPC) forbid sorority women at fraternity recruitment parties.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by jonnydrillbit

Here are some of the many reasons why schools have chosen to adopt this policy.

1) Men arent allowed at sorority rush, why is it important to see how the men treat women, but now how women treat men?

2) Some people arent joining a fraternity to meet women. it's just not important to them. some people arent even attracted to women. This needs to be understood and respected.

3) Rush events shouldnt be parties. They shouldnt have alcohol (most schools have dry rush now anyway) and they shouldnt have women or dancing. Rush events should be things like batting cages, poker nights, or nfl screenings. Women are not necessary at these events.

Thank you for your considered reply. I think we will have to agree to disagree to an extent, but let me please offer the following replies to your specific numbered as you have numbered them.

1. Where formal recruitment exists for men, women are not present. But at many schools, formal recruitment is merely a formality. By the time formal recruitment comes around, rush is essentially over. This is the big difference between the men and women when it comes to rush- at least at the schools I am familiar with. For the women, rush is 100% formal and structured. For the men, rush is largely informal and by word-of-mouth/personal contact with the formal rush process having some partial degree of usefulness at the end of the real rush season.

2. This is a tricky one. Fraternities were founded as social organizations, and that obvious appeal continues today. As I said before, the importance of having quality women attend informal rush events (I will use the term informal to refer to any rush event outside of formal IFC recruitment times at a given school) is that it says something about the quality of the men of that chapter. It helps paint a broader picture of the men of the chapter from a social standpoint- which is the point of a fraternity (at least to me.)

As for respecting men who don't like girls by not having girls at parties- if a chapter wishes to pledge and initiate a homosexual, more power to them. Being gay should not be a barrier to someone joining a fraternity. However, there has to be some respect for the group as a whole. If a chapter of 100 is going to pledge 1 gay man, then that one pledge cannot reasonably expect the entire chapter to adjust their entire recruiting process or any other aspect of their existence to de-emphasize the primary drive of the vast majority of human beings to find someone of the opposite sex with which to procreate. Any man who is rushing and is gay, and thinks women at rush events is somehow disrespectful of his rights, is well advised to avoid Greek life altogether- and perhaps society at large as well. There is a big difference between tolerating direct discrimination versus expecting everyone else to modify their lives to enhance your personal comfort.

3. During formal rush, I would even eliminate some of the kinds of events you are talking about. That should be about sitting down with rushees one on one to talk- almost in a job interview setting. This is important since formal rush happens towards the end of the total rush picture and there is much less time to get to know someone and determine if they are a good fit.

As for informal rush, I think more dry events are a good idea- especially during those initial meeting points when you are seeing people for the first time. It is dangerous and foolish (as well as illegal) to have a party for a bunch of high schoolers you have never met and get them drunk.

Final question for you- what kind of dues do you guys pay and where do they go? At southern schools, dues can be very high- I paid $2,500 a semester back when I was an active 10 years ago- and most of that was for rush and social. And no, that does not cover alcohol. It was always BYOB. That money covered bands, renting out hotels, security, 3rd party servers etc.

Point being- fraternity life for guys like me was about social activities, and that is the only reason we spent that kind of money to be members. But I also know we have chapters where the dues are so low that 50-75% of the money covers funds sent to nationals- so clearly social calendars are not so important there. This difference can be driven by the nature of a given school as much as a given chapter.

I think that is where the disconnect on rush gets to in the end. And it is also the broader disconnect between many fraternities' chapters in different regions.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by SmartBlondeGPhB

Gamma Phi Beta's rules (in accordance with NPC) forbid sorority women at fraternity recruitment parties.

Is this something recent? The reason I ask is that has not always been the case at Kentucky. As of last year if I'm not mistaken. The UK Campus Panhellenic is very much "by the book" so I would be quite shocked if UK was willingly going to these parties against NPC rules.

And is Gamma Phi Beta's rule applied to the chapter as a whole? Could women - "on their own" - attend if invited. And how is is a fraternity rush party defined? Technically, IFC rush is 24/7. So any event that is "open" (Sigma Chi Derby Day, Greek Sing, Greek Week, Homecoming etc.) can be considered an IFC rush event.