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  #1  
Old 06-29-2017, 11:28 PM
7Silver17 7Silver17 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
There are literally zero things you must do as an alumna. Dues are optional. Involvement with the chapter is optional. At some point you may have a daughter who would really rather be going through recruitment as a legacy. The new member program at your old chapter, unless they are doing illegal things, has no bearing on you. And even if they are doing illegal things, the question you should be asking is whether to report those things to your HQ (you should).
To Kevin,

The things that my organization is doing is a national issue. Reporting it to my nationals would not do any good as every chapter has been basically doing the same thing for almost 30 years.
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  #2  
Old 06-30-2017, 12:34 AM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Originally Posted by 7Silver17 View Post
To Kevin,

The things that my organization is doing is a national issue. Reporting it to my nationals would not do any good as every chapter has been basically doing the same thing for almost 30 years.
Maybe you should consider emailing your HQ (create a paper trail) and then reporting to law enforcement if they choose not to act in a manner befitting the crimes you think they are condoning. Hazing is illegal, not just immoral. You are an alumna of this organization. If you have problems with the way they are conducting themselves, I would encourage you to take a very public stand as the loyal opposition to hazing or whatever. Be a force for change within. Especially if you are considering a career in Greek Life.
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  #3  
Old 06-30-2017, 05:55 PM
7Silver17 7Silver17 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Maybe you should consider emailing your HQ (create a paper trail) and then reporting to law enforcement if they choose not to act in a manner befitting the crimes you think they are condoning. Hazing is illegal, not just immoral. You are an alumna of this organization. If you have problems with the way they are conducting themselves, I would encourage you to take a very public stand as the loyal opposition to hazing or whatever. Be a force for change within. Especially if you are considering a career in Greek Life.
Hey Kevin,

I contacted my regionals last month and my message was forwarded to nationals and I never received a response back. Also, my organization always sets up phone calls and nothing is ever written on paper, so I unfortunately do not think a paper trail would work.
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  #4  
Old 06-30-2017, 09:40 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Originally Posted by 7Silver17 View Post
Hey Kevin,

I contacted my regionals last month and my message was forwarded to nationals and I never received a response back. Also, my organization always sets up phone calls and nothing is ever written on paper, so I unfortunately do not think a paper trail would work.
If you can be a party to those calls, check with local attorneys as to the legal ramifications of recording phone conversations.
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  #5  
Old 06-30-2017, 11:29 PM
7Silver17 7Silver17 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
If you can be a party to those calls, check with local attorneys as to the legal ramifications of recording phone conversations.
I was definitely thinking of recording a conversation if the opportunity arises. Currently going to see if my chapter is willing to create some dialogue/conversation that may hopefully spark more opportunities to have these subjects discussed on a national level. Wish me luck!

Thank you all so much for your help thus far. It has been really hard to express my thoughts to people about all this for years and I felt that Greek Chat was the only space where I could get the most unbiased answers anonymously.
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  #6  
Old 07-01-2017, 08:05 AM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Originally Posted by 7Silver17 View Post
I was definitely thinking of recording a conversation if the opportunity arises. Currently going to see if my chapter is willing to create some dialogue/conversation that may hopefully spark more opportunities to have these subjects discussed on a national level. Wish me luck!

Thank you all so much for your help thus far. It has been really hard to express my thoughts to people about all this for years and I felt that Greek Chat was the only space where I could get the most unbiased answers anonymously.
Seek legal counsel before you record anything. This would be a crime in some states.
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  #7  
Old 07-01-2017, 04:38 PM
navane navane is offline
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Originally Posted by 7Silver17 View Post
More specifically, many practices that my sorority is doing, according to my AD, may be "indicative of hazing." Prior to joining Greek Life, I told myself that I would never stand for anything related to hazing.

Hi 7Silver17,

Thank you for sharing some extra information. Your explanation of the general situation of what you're facing helps us better understand where you are coming from. I have been a very active alumna member of my NPC organization for 13 years. Prior to changing careers, I worked in higher education and specifically sent some time working in our FSL office. I do have some thoughts to share in all sincerity.


First, you said that your AD felt that some of the things you described "may be" indicative of hazing. Without you explaining the exact activity involved (and you don't have to), it's hard to pin down if this situation truly is hazing or not. Any FSL staff member worth their salt would know right off the bat if something was hazing. However, it sounds as if the activities described fall into a gray-ish area. (?) For example, "We were required to chug bottles of vodka and then circle each other's fat." That would be obvious hazing. "We were told we would have to be able to recite the 12 founders' names any time someone asks" or "our pledges do a scavenger hunt" would be a more gray area.


According to you, at the time you participated, you had it in mind that you would never stand for hazing; but, you imply that you did participate in activities that you now think "may be" hazing. Sincere question, did it occur to you at the time (as a collegian), that this activity was, or might be, hazing? I'm not criticizing, I'm just trying to understand because it seems like it didn't bother you at the time even though you said you "...would never stand for anything related to hazing"



Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Silver17 View Post
The things that my organization is doing is a national issue. Reporting it to my nationals would not do any good as every chapter has been basically doing the same thing for almost 30 years.

Is this issue "national" because it is literally printed in the new member education materials put out by headquarters or is it "national" because many chapters do this activity and no one's stopping them?


Here, I have to wonder why any national GLO would outright place or advertise hazing activities in their new member program. Again, is it a gray area activity that may be innocent on paper but implemented incorrectly by individual chapters? (see my examples above).


Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Silver17 View Post
As for alumnae relations, if I would hypothetically move to another place, reaching out to a fellow sister is not on my mind. While we may be in the same sisterhood, we are still strangers.

Respectfully, this doesn't hold water. Every friend starts out as a stranger. It's when we get to know people that we build relationships and they turn into friendships. So, it's probably not the strangers thing that gets you, it's more likely that you simply just don't want to reach out or associate because of your negative feelings towards the GLO. That's perfectly ok to feel that way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Silver17 View Post
I want to disaffiliate because my organization nationally does not believe what they are doing is considered hazing. & as an alumna, even though I am not heavily involved in the organization, I am thinking that I should cut off my association with the sorority. If something were to happen in the news on a national level, I am concerned for my career of being labelled of someone who "supported" an organization that hazes. I feel like I run the risk of people thinking that I support the organization and what it is doing, especially as a new member of the professional FSL community. I just want to secure my new and upcoming career as all. Even though this concern of mine takes priority, I have overall been mostly unhappy being a part of the organization.

Since you say that the organization's national entity does not believe what it's doing is hazing, then either the organization is horribly and dangerously off-base or the activity really may not be hazing like you think it is.


I dealt with a MCG sorority hazing case - the pledge came into my office sobbing, in clear distress, and outright asked me for help. That situation, based on her narrative, was an obvious case of hazing. There was no hesitation on my part that it "may be indicative of hazing". It WAS hazing and I reported the chapter to the FSL Director immediately. So, as a former FSL professional, I'm really getting stuck on that your AD didn't seem to know if it was hazing or not.


Also, I want to reassure you that your affiliation with your sorority will not ruin your student affairs career like you think it will. In my experience, no one really pays that much attention to it, even in the FSL segment of student affairs. In the FSL office, we were all GLO members. Yes, we knew who belonged to which fraternity and sorority; but, no one tripped on if one sorority was thought to be better than another or if one had made the news or not. If you look at the national news recently, there have been a number of really horrible high-profile embarrassments and tragedies for a few national GLOs. No one in FSL is going to look at you and say, "Oh, you're an XYZ? Isn't XYZ the sorority that <fill in the blank>?" FSL advisers are smart enough to know that one mistake or one bad chapter or one bad programming idea doesn't mean all members are bad. You will not be black-listed from FSL professional events or career opportunities. If anything, FSL practioners would likely be the MOST supportive of you and your GLO.


I think that the "my alumnae sisters are all strangers anyway" and "my national office only does phone calls" and "I'm afraid my Greek Life career could be hurt" are simply your attempts to justify your desire to disaffiliate from your GLO for whatever reason it is you really wanted to disaffiliate. If in your heart you truly believe that the activity is hazing, that the organization is a supporter of hazing, or that you otherwise have a moral or ethical objection to the values of the organization, then I support your decision to disaffiliate. Truly.
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Last edited by navane; 07-02-2017 at 01:03 AM. Reason: Typo
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  #8  
Old 07-02-2017, 12:02 AM
7Silver17 7Silver17 is offline
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Seek legal counsel before you record anything. This would be a crime in some states.
Glad you told me that. Thank you!!!
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